[X] My Assistant

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Are you saying it's not?

Lost Cause there Yerameyahu... Lost Cause... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Hehe. My point is that it's a fictional universe that Mordinvan is making many assumptions about. The thought process is very simple: mechanics first, then fluff. If the mechanics show that Essence works X, Y, and Z, then *that* is what you have to go on. You can't be mad that (in-game) reality is *wrong*. Instead, your assumptions are wrong. Change them.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Hehe. My point is that it's a fictional universe that Mordinvan is making many assumptions about. The thought process is very simple: mechanics first, then fluff. If the mechanics show that Essence works X, Y, and Z, then *that* is what you have to go on. You can't be mad that (in-game) reality is *wrong*. Instead, your assumptions are wrong. Change them.

No doubt... there are a lot of things in Shadowrun that are odd...
But I sure hate injecting that troublesome Reality into the Game... That way leads madness... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Mordinvan]

Indistinguishable how? By DNA testing? Or by the mystic powers of the Universe that aren't really understood? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Given that bacteria can still become resistant to new antibiotics, I'm going to say "yes"

[Mordinvan]

Are you saying it's not?

Until demonstrated otherwise.

[Mordinvan]

No doubt... there are a lot of things in Shadowrun that are odd...
But I sure hate injecting that troublesome Reality into the Game... That way leads madness... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

I find correcting the problems tends to make things slightly less maddening.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I find correcting the problems tends to make things slightly less maddening.

To each his own I guess... I just see it as a game and move along... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
Do you change the rules for Monopoly because you have issues with the economics of the game? Or do you just play it?

[Cabral]

Except I can point to a number of natural human mutations which mimic those offered by gene ware very closely which exist in the population, but do so in very low levels. The geneware used to create the same effects in humans would likely induce those mutations, and as such would be indistinguishable from the naturally occurring mutations.

An unnatural parallel to a naturally occurring mutations is not a naturally occurring mutation. As such, you cannot assume that the same truths apply to both.

You are assuming that Essence is a purely physical trait, completely explainable about modern science. This is not an assertion presented, or even supported, by the rules. If maintain this unsubstantiated definition of Essence, of course it will conflict with the books.

[Mordinvan]

To each his own I guess... I just see it as a game and move along... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
Do you change the rules for Monopoly because you have issues with the economics of the game? Or do you just play it?

I tend not to play games which are that simplistic, unless they involve ZOMBIES.

[MikeKozar]

I tend not to play games which are that simplistic, unless they involve ZOMBIES.

This one has Trolls.

[Mordinvan]

An unnatural parallel to a naturally occurring mutations is not a naturally occurring mutation. As such, you cannot assume that the same truths apply to both.

You are assuming that Essence is a purely physical trait, completely explainable about modern science. This is not an assertion presented, or even supported, by the rules. If maintain this unsubstantiated definition of Essence, of course it will conflict with the books.

I'm actually saying inducing the same mutation as that which occurs naturally should be indistinguishable. Given that DNA casts an astral shadow which effects how the DNA folds, which effects its astral shadow,(wash rinse repeat), it does in fact come down to DNA being a large contributing factor. If the DNA for a given gene between 2 individuals were born with is identical, there is no reason for one to be charged essence for it, while the other is not.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I tend not to play games which are that simplistic, unless they involve ZOMBIES.

Well, you miss out on a lot of fun that way...
My personal Favorite, simplistic game, is "Ebola Monkey Hunt," unfortunately, there are no Zombies... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
But No Worries...

[Mordinvan]

Well, you miss out on a lot of fun that way...
My personal Favorite, simplistic game, is "Ebola Monkey Hunt," unfortunately, there are no Zombies... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
But No Worries...

Well monkeys can be good too. Especially if they are monkey pirate zombies, but sadly only one movie I am aware of was ever that awesome.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well monkeys can be good too. Especially if they are monkey pirate zombies, but sadly only one movie I am aware of was ever that awesome.

Heheheh... Point Taken... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Just because you think it should work a certain way doesn't mean that's how it works. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) You're just making up guesses, then getting mad that they're wrong.

[Mordinvan]

Just because you think it should work a certain way doesn't mean that's how it works. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) You're just making up guesses, then getting mad that they're wrong.

Actually if anything I'm 'mad' because their explanation for how it works is not internally consistent. Either second generation genetic changes cause essence loss, at which point every species on the planet is doomed to extinction rather soon, or they do not, at which point genetic heritage shouldn't either. If changes to your bodies pattern causes essence loss, then its having a limb removed which causes essence loss, etc.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Actually if anything I'm 'mad' because their explanation for how it works is not internally consistent. Either second generation genetic changes cause essence loss, at which point every species on the planet is doomed to extinction rather soon, or they do not, at which point genetic heritage shouldn't either. If changes to your bodies pattern causes essence loss, then its having a limb removed which causes essence loss, etc.

You forgot the 3rd Choice there... It could just not matter at all in the long run of things, and these are just Edge Cases. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

So little creativity. Maybe it takes more than just one generation to be cosmically integrated. Maybe 2, 3, 7, 14… You have no idea (neither do I), but I'm happy to admit it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) In addition, the Genetic Heritage quality is a game rule for game characters within game balance; there's no reason to use it as your basis for the grand theory of essence.

[Mordinvan]

So little creativity. Maybe it takes more than just one generation to be cosmically integrated. Maybe 2, 3, 7, 14… You have no idea (neither do I), but I'm happy to admit it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) In addition, the Genetic Heritage quality is a game rule for game characters within game balance; there's no reason to use it as your basis for the grand theory of essence.

given how I've seen other people base their grand theories of X in shadow run based on even less, I'm not really sure that's an applicable statement.

[Yerameyahu]

It is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Mordinvan]

It is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If you say so, but as the game states genetic modification, even across generations costs essence, I can't really see where the my assumptions that this would be 'bad' for any species as a whole is unwarranted.

[Yerameyahu]

Across a generation, for that quality, and for artificial genetic changes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Mordinvan]

Across a generation, for that quality, and for artificial genetic changes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

As the artificial genetic chances can be done using the same mechanisms nature can use to install new DNA in our genome, ie retroviral insertions.

[Yerameyahu]

That's true. So? Still artificial. It's magic.

[MikeKozar]

[REDACTED]