Armor and spirits, Beetle Spirits vs. Earth Spirits Options

[Omenowl]

So this has bugged me for a bit, but why do beetle spirits have armor, but earth spirits do not? It seems that if you want a rock spirit that it should have more than just a body attribute to take damage.

Any ideas or thoughts about this?

[SkepticInc]

So this has bugged me for a bit, but why do beetle spirits have armor, but earth spirits do not? It seems that if you want a rock spirit that it should have more than just a body attribute to take damage.

Any ideas or thoughts about this?

Earth spirits cover everything from loose sand to metal, right? Shouldn't they only get armor if they are more on the solid granite side than the Sandman side?

[Lanlaorn]

Well, as is being discussed in the Spirit Retool thread just now too, all spirits have armor by virtue of their Immunity to Normal Weapons. In aiddition to ignoring any damage less than Force x2 the spirit then has Force x2 pseudo-armor to resist damage with (not just its body).

Extra armor would just be unnecessary for Earth Elementals I imagine, and Beetles are supposed to be overpowered since the insect spirits are all evil?

[Omenowl]

Earth spirits cover everything from loose sand to metal, right? Shouldn't they only get armor if they are more on the solid granite side than the Sandman side?

Then shouldn't it be an optional power so a summoner could determine the type of earth spirit?

[SkepticInc]

Then shouldn't it be an optional power so a summoner could determine the type of earth spirit?

You would think.

[Yerameyahu]

Maybe, but instead they just don't have it. See how much easier? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[SkepticInc]

Maybe, but instead they just don't have it. See how much easier? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Ah yes, let me re-spin my previous answer:

"Magic is mysterious, and the only entity that would know for sure would be the Great Earth Elemental in It's home on the Earth Metaplane. Through many meditations, deep learnings, and diligent discipline, you too may know they Why that you seek. Along the way, you may learn some metamagic to summon an Earth Elemental with the armored traits you want, proving the ineffable ways of the Great Earth Spirit."

[Omenowl]

I am not sure if I want to even get into mixed elemental types such as mud, steam, magma, dust, etc.

Part of the reason I bring this up is what differentiates the different types of spirits. I feel each spirit should have 1 unique trait unlike the others at the base level (ignoring the invoking).

example:
Spirits of Men have spells
Spirits of Beasts have animal control

As for the comment about they already have armor. The reality is they don't have armor. Attacks of will and foci ignore the immunity to weapons. The idea is so even an adept who has a focus would still worry about facing an earth elemental because it has armor.

[Yerameyahu]

Nah, spirits are ungodly strong enough already.

[Omenowl]

Nah, spirits are ungodly strong enough already.

What separates an earth elemental from any other spirit besides a difference in body or strength? The goal is to make every spirit not only unique powers but desirable to summon depending on the situation. The earth spirit does not have any unique powers. It doesn't even have a unique combination of powers. This is the issue.

[Shinobi Killfist]

What separates an earth elemental from any other spirit besides a difference in body or strength? The goal is to make every spirit not only unique powers but desirable to summon depending on the situation. The earth spirit does not have any unique powers. It doesn't even have a unique combination of powers. This is the issue.

While I agree with you here a earth spirit not having armor works for me thematically. Unless it is a possession spirit they don't really have a true physical form and they can't create real armor for themselves. They may look like a wall of rock, but they are still just a materialized astral form. Insect spirits on the other hand are a type of possession spirits so there is a physical form to have armor even if they can go totally astral as well. At one point the physical form existed.

Still I would have liked a lot more differentiation in spirits outside of stats. Most of them feel the same.

[Martin_DeVries_I...]

What separates an earth elemental from any other spirit besides a difference in body or strength? The goal is to make every spirit not only unique powers but desirable to summon depending on the situation. The earth spirit does not have any unique powers. It doesn't even have a unique combination of powers. This is the issue.

Well, at base earth spirits do have Binding, which is only available to Task spirits. Other spirit types can only gain Binding as one of their optional powers.

[Ol' Scratch]

Most spirits, when they materialize, only look like specific materials. An earth elemental that materializes as a stone statue isn't actually made out of stone, it's made out of an ectoplasmic material that just looks like it. The same is true of the other basic spirits. Even fire elementals don't start things by virtue of being made of fire, magma, or whatever; they do it because of their Energy Aura power. What earth elementals lack in armor they make up for with Body and Strength.

Bug spirits are a unique type of spirit, from a unique subset of metaplanes. That they have unique powers and traits different from elementals or totemic spirits is neither a surprise or something you shouldn't expect. They also have their unique problems do deal with, too. Like Evane... god I hate this word... Evanescence? or whatever it's called.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

What separates an earth elemental from any other spirit besides a difference in body or strength? The goal is to make every spirit not only unique powers but desirable to summon depending on the situation. The earth spirit does not have any unique powers. It doesn't even have a unique combination of powers. This is the issue.

And yet an Earth Spirit is generally my first choice for a lot of things...
Just Sayin'

Keep the Faith

[AngelisStorm]

So, the issue is that beetle spirits have an armor of... 4/4? Which is reduceable by AP as normal?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

So, the issue is that beetle spirits have an armor of... 4/4? Which is reduceable by AP as normal?

Apparently...

Keep the Faith

[Ol' Scratch]

So, the issue is that beetle spirits have an armor of... 4/4? Which is reduceable by AP as normal?

Nah, his issue is that they have armor at all, while earth elementals don't. He wants them to be able to reproduce the effect of being real stone or rock in much the same way as a fire elemental can reproduce the effect of actually being on fire with Energy Aura. I get where he's coming from, I just don't think its a big deal either way. Adding Armor as a secondary power that you can choose for higher force earth elementals is fine and dandy by me.