Troll sized guns, a bit lacking in shadowrun Options

[Ravennus]

Interesting sidetopic: How about concealability? It's obviously difficult to hide an Ingram Smartgun under a Duster, if you're Human. Too bulky. But if you're a Troll, you have a LOT more coat to cover your weapon under. Hell, a Troll could probably hide it under his armpit!. Where a human might have a problem hiding a regular sized Hunting Rifle under his Duster, a Troll on the other hand shouldn't find it to be a problem at all.

Yet, the rules for concealability make no distinction between Trolls and regular sized mortals...

This was actually covered in SR3. Trolls definitely got a modifier for concealing items on their person.
I used it to great effect with I played my troll Mafia Enforcer "Sandman" on the Shadowrun Seattle MUX. He wielded two SPAS-22's like pistols. Sawed-off with pistol grips.
I still have fond memories of meeting with a PC fixer and his PC bodyguard. The bodyguard gave me a quick pat-down and totally missed the shotguns under my coat. His employer wasn't happy when I pulled them out. Good thing I only wanted him to find a good gunsmith to get them modded, lol.

[Stahlseele]

Trolls need something like this:
http://www.whatsthelatest.net/wp-content/u...estrevolver.jpg
Or the old Gun Hoax from way back, Birdman Weapon Systems.
Basically, the Barret M8A2 in Pistol-Size. Yes, a .50BMG Pistol . .

[TheWanderingJewe...]

so assuming .454 Casull or .600 magnum in the standard light troll sidearm....where can we go from that

[AngelisStorm]

Back to where we started. The warhawk fires larger than assualt rifle ammunition.

Take short barrelled shotguns. Make a houserule that trolls can dual wield larger than SMGs. There ya go.

[raben-aas]

Why do I have to think of the .666 Pistol in CP2020?

[IKerensky]

Why not just house rules a bonus DV for firearms equal to +1 DV for each 3 pts of BODY above 3 ? only for size modified weapons ?

[Stahlseele]

For a Troll, Shotguns ARE sidearms.
Trolls can and do dual wield/single handedly shoot even heavy weapons without too much trouble.
Take BF Shotgun, use ExEx Ammo, shorten Barrel, call it good.

[Summerstorm]

Aye... that's about how i do it too. You can't just add on DV. But you can substitute weapon systems for others. Like sniper rifle one handed (and shortened etc.) With some overmodding or GM-decision.

[Stahlseele]

You can fire even HEAVY WEAPONS like LMG's or PAC's or Gauss-Rifles or Miniguns one handed, if you want to . .
Troll HP=Shotgun.
Troll SMG=AR
Troll AR=xMG

[The Jopp]

If you want a high damage troll sized “hand” gun I would go with the Elephant Rifle.

Just remove stock and barrel (Barrel Reduction X2) for a +2 Concealability. Sure, It’s only a 2 shot “pistol” but it would do 10P AP-2 with Ex-Ex rounds. Give it a +1 to recoil and -20% range to represent the pistol grip and shortened barrel.

[Stahlseele]

Is there still room for upgrading magazine capacity? O.o

[The Jopp]

Depends on your GM.

I would say that ”Additional Clip” and/or ”Improved Clip” can easily represent that the [B] loading mechanism have been changed to [C] for Cylinder and if there is space left add the ”Improved Cylinder” modification to get +2 Ammo.

The Improved Clip would give an ammo capacity of 2,5 and we round up that to 3 so we get a barrel loaded tri-barreled gun – and those exist in real life, OR a 3 shot cylinder in a one barrelled pistol. (After all, those exists in Borderlands ^_^ ).

The Additional Clip mod would give an ammo of 4 and such hunting rifles exists as well, albeit rare.

[Yerameyahu]

I certainly wouldn't let you use Addition/Extended Clip in that way. If necessary, the GM *should* provide addition (more expensive) options, to fairly represent the extensive modification required.

Personally, I think it's much more appropriate for trolls to use larger 'human' guns, as people have already mentioned; massively modified custom weapons would, of course, be the *rare* purview of crazy shadowrunners. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Stahlseele]

i still remember the Glock Drachentöter HPist with 10M Damage and SA Fire-Mode. With the Glock Greifenauge optical Scope and the under Barrel Laser-Pointer aside from the short reach of an HPist in general, you basically had a Hunting Rifle in your pocket . .

[Yerameyahu]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) Stahlseele, I thought you were just happy to see me.

[Stahlseele]

That's no stick shift, that's my automatic!

[Neurosis]

I've noticed that the heavy pistols in shadowrun, while sized for humans and related....are a bit on the small side when you get your ripped, not to mention agumented trolls out there. Given the Advent of the .454 Casull round, and the .60cal pistols out there....is there anything for the Big boys and girls?

Caliber in guns in SR is something I've been meaning to make a thread about. It's always unspoken, but I do imagine that the Ruger Super Warhawk is either .454 Casull or .500 Winchester Magnum, as opposed to your more typical .44 Magnum or .357 Magnum. (As a contrast, I imagine the Ares Predator is probably loading 10MM Auto). The Eichiro Hatamoto on the other hand I imagine being essentially a .70 Cal musket.

[KarmaInferno]

Hmm... I have half a thought to stat out the 40 to 80 mm handguns from the game Underground.




-karma

[TommyTwoToes]

Hmm... I have half a thought to stat out the 40 to 80 mm handguns from the game Underground.




-karma

Tastey Ghoul !

[CanRay]

Caliber in guns in SR is something I've been meaning to make a thread about. It's always unspoken, but I do imagine that the Ruger Super Warhawk is either .454 Casull or .500 Winchester Magnum, as opposed to your more typical .44 Magnum or .357 Magnum. (As a contrast, I imagine the Ares Predator is probably loading 10MM Auto). The Eichiro Hatamoto on the other hand I imagine being essentially a .70 Cal musket.

There's also the .500 S&W that the Super Warhawk might be chambered for.

As for the Ares Predator, the pic in the BBB shows it's chambered for 10mm Caseless. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) (At least, in 4th Edition.).

I've also described the .45 ACCP (Automatic Colt Caseless Pistol) for one of my characters. But that's just me, and I'm pretty old fashioned.

[Dumori]

As for the Ares Predator, the pic in the BBB shows it's chambered for 10mm Caseless. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) (At least, in 4th Edition.).

Lets see that full size shall we: http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs8/i/2005/274/...by_Br0uHaHa.gif

[EKBT81]

Caliber in guns in SR is something I've been meaning to make a thread about. It's always unspoken, but I do imagine that the Ruger Super Warhawk is either .454 Casull or .500 Winchester Magnum, as opposed to your more typical .44 Magnum or .357 Magnum. (As a contrast, I imagine the Ares Predator is probably loading 10MM Auto). The Eichiro Hatamoto on the other hand I imagine being essentially a .70 Cal musket.

There's also the .500 S&W that the Super Warhawk might be chambered for.

As for the Ares Predator, the pic in the BBB shows it's chambered for 10mm Caseless. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) (At least, in 4th Edition.).

I've also described the .45 ACCP (Automatic Colt Caseless Pistol) for one of my characters. But that's just me, and I'm pretty old fashioned.

Well, the pre-anniversary SR4 BBB uses the picture of the Super Warhawk from Arsenal 2060, the German edition of the SR3 Cannon Companion. In Arsenal 2060, you can clearly read "Super Warhawk .44" on the underlug. Doesn't say which .44 cartridge and depends on how canonical you consider the illustrations to be.

Anyway, any attempt of assigning calibers to SR weapons is IMHO always highly debatable, especially if you consider the changes in damage codes between the various editions.

[Neurosis]

Remember in real life guns are chambered in various calibers. Ruger Super Warhawk probably is available in .44, .357, .454 Casull, and .500 S&W. In a world where people have a total of ten health levels in general, I can buy the difference in power between a .357 and a .500 S&W being effectively negligible. Damage on a (more or less) one to ten scale just doesn't give you that much granularity. If you assume every gun is available in multiple calibers, it helps handwave the damage code changes between editions.

Same deal with the Ares Predator. It could be available in both 10mm and .50 AE, easy.

I picture the Colt Manhunter and Colt Government 2066 definitely being chambered in .45 ACP. (Or ACCP as someone said.)

[CanRay]

Well, the .45 may be getting a new lease on life with the creation of the KRISS Vector.

Anyhow, back to Troll Guns, one thing that I think about is a combination of production and marketing. Yes, there's money to be made in making modifications of existing designs for Trolls, as that doesn't require complete retooling of equipment... But is there enough of a market to build anything specifically for them that isn't custom made?

Buildings still aren't built with Trolls in mind after all, just furniture for said buildings. Watch those low ceilings with the horns.

[Neurosis]

Well, the .45 may be getting a new lease on life with the creation of the KRISS Vector.

Hey man, the .45 ACP is an immortal cartridge. It will never die. (Seriously, plenty of modern guns use it because its stopping power is just better than 9mm.)

(1911 is my favorite gun can ya tell?)