Challenging a Rigger's meat body, Encouraging them to move with the group Options

[Elfenlied]

Hello all,
I've got a question on how you guys handle Technomancers/Riggers who don't enter the target area along with the rest of the group, but rather stay safely in their vehicle/at home and remote control their drones. What irks me is that I can't really touch these characters with anything short of EMP rockets, therefore they can usually afford to dump their physical stats.


So, is there any way I can encourage them to actually enter the area in question?

[MortVent]

Trace

Secure facilites with anti-wireless systems (requiring hard wired links on site to get to the real data)

basically make some sites impossible to remote into...

Evil GM: took one research facility. The daily backups/emails/etc were saved up.. gateway system boots up, temporary link to the facility network to upload all the data to send and then severs that link and reboots, then connects to the matrix to transmit it all and pull down the data for the local site, reboots, runs a full system sweet with purge, then connects to the local net and transmits. Then it shut down.

Make the decker scream something fierce since he had to be on site to get the data and security owned.

[hermit]

Make them have to do legwork-intensive runs. Make them have to infiltrate. Or just give them a disease.

[Belvidere]

In fairness, it is not easy to make a technomancer who is good at going in the meat if you aren't a long time player or just naturally good at min maxing. And as for a rigger, I still wouldn't want to dump my physical stats if you're truly rigging something, you use your agility for shooting and your reaction for piloting. Or if you're really mean and want to stop their drones have people with stick and shock rounds, lightning bolt and other rigger/hackers on the scene trying to use the PCs drones against them.

[Elfenlied]

Essentially, I want to be able to stop their drones without making the character in question useless for the rest of the session. E.g. the TM's drones get destroyed, but she's still on site and hijacks some of the corporate drones. Also, TMs who dump their physical stats should face the same consequences as mages who do so, except that usually the mage has to be in the heat, while the TM doesn't.

[hermit]

Also, TMs who dump their physical stats should face the same consequences as mages who do so, except that usually the mage has to be in the heat, while the TM doesn't.

TMs get preferrential treatment by SR4 rules, fact.

However, they really need every dump they can get if built with BP (Even with SR4A, Karmagen gets you much more bang for the buck in mancers).

[Belvidere]

Essentially, I want to be able to stop their drones without making the character in question useless for the rest of the session. E.g. the TM's drones get destroyed, but she's still on site and hijacks some of the corporate drones. Also, TMs who dump their physical stats should face the same consequences as mages who do so, except that usually the mage has to be in the heat, while the TM doesn't.

Thats really just the biggest bonus about being a rigger/hacker. You don't have to but you body at risk. But if someone tracks you down to your meat body, you're pretty much screwed if you treat your body like garbage.

[MortVent]

you'd be surprised at how fast a mage can avoid being there "in the meat" by using dual natured astral pigment capsule rounds carried by a sami ... grounding is fun!

Sec guard "hey the troll just shot me with a paint gun!"
Sec mage "oh.. it's dual natu.."
*BOOOM!*

[Belvidere]

you'd be surprised at how fast a mage can avoid being there "in the meat" by using dual natured astral pigment capsule rounds carried by a sami ... grounding is fun!

Sec guard "hey the troll just shot me with a paint gun!"
Sec mage "oh.. it's dual natu.."
*BOOOM!*

Or you just play a summoner. And just project around telling them to kill stuff.

[hermit]

Much more effective. Spirits are the mage's true power in SR, not spells.

[Elfenlied]

Well, we're playing Karmagen with <New Attribute>x3, so I don't believe TMs get the short end of the stick in this regard. As for the dual-natured paintgun, the Sam is putting himself at risk of getting fried himself.

[MortVent]

Well, we're playing Karmagen with <New Attribute>x3, so I don't believe TMs get the short end of the stick in this regard. As for the dual-natured paintgun, the Sam is putting himself at risk of getting fried himself.

True, but only if the sec mage is astral in which case the team's mage is going to notice and sick spirits or spells on them.. preferably grounding through them

[Ascalaphus]

What about opposing hackers? If you want to jump into drones, that means you're using VR, which means you become vulnerable to biofeedback.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

you'd be surprised at how fast a mage can avoid being there "in the meat" by using dual natured astral pigment capsule rounds carried by a sami ... grounding is fun!

Sec guard "hey the troll just shot me with a paint gun!"
Sec mage "oh.. it's dual natu.."
*BOOOM!*

Grounding does not work in 4th... even if they are coated with a Dual Natured Astral Pigment, you may ONLY target the Pigment, and not what it is covering... now if you were using Shade with DMSO, that would be a different game entirely, as you force the target to Project (even if mundane)... That gets nasty real quick, even if it is a bit expensive...

Keep the Faith

[Traul]

Essentially, I want to be able to stop their drones without making the character in question useless for the rest of the session. E.g. the TM's drones get destroyed, but she's still on site and hijacks some of the corporate drones. Also, TMs who dump their physical stats should face the same consequences as mages who do so, except that usually the mage has to be in the heat, while the TM doesn't.

This is their problem, not yours. Warn them first OOC, then jam their drones a couple of times, and maybe they will think about other tactics.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

This is their problem, not yours. Warn them first OOC, then jam their drones a couple of times, and maybe they will think about other tactics.

Simple Jamming works wonders... and is really not all that difficult at all...

Keep the Faith

[Belvidere]

This is their problem, not yours. Warn them first OOC, then jam their drones a couple of times, and maybe they will think about other tactics.

Wow, you're nice. There's no way I'd warn them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Traul]

Not that I want to be nice, but it helps to fix things. If you don't help them, they won't think "we screwed up somewhere" but "the GM is a dick".

[Telion]

A couple people mentioned Jamming and the wi-fi paint. Both great ways to force the TM to enter the building. Another option for making the drones closer is to do this in a AA or AAA security area. If their PAN is covering too large an area (i.e. drone too far away from TM), I'm sure some security deckers will take notice and send someone to investigate.

Or have part of a mission require the starting of some machinery that messes with wireless signals something fierce. If they want to be any part of the next part of the mission they'll need to go with. Perhaps the team needs to go down an elevator to ... the core.

Or you could harass them with security. Security teams rotate and search his hideout... astral security... etc... might be safer with the team after all.

[MortVent]

Don't forget, many sites will go offline during an alert... literally cutting off outside matrix connections to their networks.

So not on site, suddenly the team has no matrix cover...

Or my personal favorite to bring hackers/deckers to tears... Satellite only link to the matrix from the site (truely evil in how it hits hard on the fact the locals have full matrix initiative, but those remote attackers do not) [even more evil is if the sat relay connection is from site A to sat, sat to main corp offices... so in other words remote hacking it means first hacking through say the main Azzie corp host, hack through the sat, then hack into the remote site]

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Don't forget, many sites will go offline during an alert... literally cutting off outside matrix connections to their networks.

So not on site, suddenly the team has no matrix cover...

Or my personal favorite to bring hackers/deckers to tears... Satellite only link to the matrix from the site (truely evil in how it hits hard on the fact the locals have full matrix initiative, but those remote attackers do not) [even more evil is if the sat relay connection is from site A to sat, sat to main corp offices... so in other words remote hacking it means first hacking through say the main Azzie corp host, hack through the sat, then hack into the remote site]

Yeah, Slaving via Satellites is very rude indeed...

Keep the Faith

[Rock_Bottom]

I play a technomancer. Maybe it's just my personality, but I've never felt that I should be off-site for a job. Off-site hacking is for information gathering before the op (hopefully with a few days lead time to set up dummy accounts to thwart traces).

But, during the operation, I feel it is my responsibility to be on-site. Nevermind the fact that I might have to adjust to changing conditions while hacking. I need to be there because I am another gun. I'm not as skilled as the gunadept, but I have done my fair share of damage with my Ingram. The rules give plenty of options for getting the hacker on-site, and they've been mentioned here.

One thing to keep in mind is Signal rating. A lot of times my group forgets that Matrix communication is two-way. So, even if a rigger has a commlink with a 5 signal, he's not going to be able to communicate with his 2 or 3 signal drones over long distances. In that case, he's going to have to bounce his signal through various nodes on the Matrix, and that's when you hit him with the opposing hacker. Or, maybe the "cell towers" (or whatever they're called in 2070) in the immediate area are faulty, and prone to dropping signals, or the location of the op is in a dead zone. In such cases, your hackers are going to need to be on-site to deal with that problem.

Riggers would be a bit different, especially if they like to jump into their drones a lot. VR makes you meatbody an easier target. I think a lot of people, though, tend to ignore the possibilities of AR and just go straight for full immersion. Start introducing black IC if your hackers never leave VR. I've been tempted once or twice to make a street sam/hacker just to screw with my GM.

[Ascalaphus]

One thing to keep in mind is Signal rating. A lot of times my group forgets that Matrix communication is two-way. So, even if a rigger has a commlink with a 5 signal, he's not going to be able to communicate with his 2 or 3 signal drones over long distances. In that case, he's going to have to bounce his signal through various nodes on the Matrix, and that's when you hit him with the opposing hacker. Or, maybe the "cell towers" (or whatever they're called in 2070) in the immediate area are faulty, and prone to dropping signals, or the location of the op is in a dead zone. In such cases, your hackers are going to need to be on-site to deal with that problem.

That's why you make the rest of your team carry Signal 5+ commlinks with ECCM. Remember, a good rigger considers the rest of the team to be drones as well (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Riggers would be a bit different, especially if they like to jump into their drones a lot. VR makes you meatbody an easier target. I think a lot of people, though, tend to ignore the possibilities of AR and just go straight for full immersion. Start introducing black IC if your hackers never leave VR. I've been tempted once or twice to make a street sam/hacker just to screw with my GM.

Well, VR allows 5IPs if you trick it out a bit, and opens up the really big dice pools even on drones with poor stats on their own. But if you expect a drone to get shot up, you need to get out or suffer biofeedback. Don't forget that you not only get biofeedback from damage your drones don't resist, but that you also suffer dumpshock if they're broken. Add to that hackers trying to kick you out, and a rigger really isn't all that safe. Finally, keeping up a connection to your drones gives the opposition plenty of time for traces...

[Gyro]

Well one if they're rigging/hacking from home I'd hand wave a trace and have a small response team show up at the teams hideout shortly after the run so the whole team can enjoy the fun (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) . And the vehicle isn't that big of a deal; had a gm blow the van with a group of rpg toting guards after a trace. If they're jumped in and have no sense of the vehicle have a gang steal the wheels. Have fun with it.


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[Mister Book]

TMs get preferrential treatment by SR4 rules, fact.

How so?