 Ritual Binding Materials, Consumed? |
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 Jul 7 2010, 12:56 AM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 29-August 02 Member No.: 3,195  |
For spirit binding, it seems like the ritual binding materials would be consumed, but I can't find the reference. Any help?
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Jul 7 2010, 01:39 AM
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#2
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Target Group: Members Posts: 45 Joined: 5-February 10 Member No.: 18,116 |
It doesn't say so explicitly under Binding, but the Rebinding section on page 189 of SR4A says, "The test requires another ritual taking a number of hours equal to the current Force of the spirit, requiring the same materials as before (at 500 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) per point of the spirit's Force)." To me, that implies that the materials are expended in the ritual, and if you want to perform another ritual (even to rebind the same spirit), you need to buy more materials.
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Jul 7 2010, 01:55 AM
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#3
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
It may be one of those rules that's so obvious it's not written down. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Does the book actually *say* that ammo gets used up?
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Jul 7 2010, 02:02 AM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 29-August 02 Member No.: 3,195 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jul 7 2010, 02:55 AM)  It may be one of those rules that's so obvious it's not written down. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Does the book actually *say* that ammo gets used up? Well firearms are obvious, of course the bullets get used up (although I suppose you could pry the projectile out of the wall/someone's body and reform a bullet). However, it's not obvious that ritual binding materials get used up. They could be candles, incense, or other consumables, or they could be sculptures, paintings, and representative elements (silver cup for an air elemental, gold for fire, etc.) that attune the magician to the spirit. |
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Jul 7 2010, 02:08 AM
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#5
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
As long as your *money* vanishes, you can fluff it however you like, I guess. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The permanent items, IMO, constitute a Lodge, not binding materials.
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Jul 8 2010, 01:49 PM
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#6
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
QUOTE (biccat @ Jul 6 2010, 08:02 PM) Well firearms are obvious, of course the bullets get used up (although I suppose you could pry the projectile out of the wall/someone's body and reform a bullet). However, it's not obvious that ritual binding materials get used up. They could be candles, incense, or other consumables, or they could be sculptures, paintings, and representative elements (silver cup for an air elemental, gold for fire, etc.) that attune the magician to the spirit. If they were not used up, then after the initial Binding Ritual subsequent Rituals would be "free". And all subsequent Binding Rituals. Which in effect would make all Binding Rituals free. At which point, why bother having an initial cost listed and not described as such? |
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Jul 8 2010, 02:09 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 301 Joined: 25-August 04 From: Tampa, FL Member No.: 6,602 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jul 6 2010, 09:55 PM) It may be one of those rules that's so obvious it's not written down. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Does the book actually *say* that ammo gets used up? Though for firearms we have real world logic. I've personally never seen a spirit binding work IRL (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I've always assumed (for game purposes) it get's consumed. |
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Jul 8 2010, 05:23 PM
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#8
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Target Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 29-August 02 Member No.: 3,195 |
QUOTE (DireRadiant @ Jul 8 2010, 01:49 PM) If they were not used up, then after the initial Binding Ritual subsequent Rituals would be "free". And all subsequent Binding Rituals. Which in effect would make all Binding Rituals free. At which point, why bother having an initial cost listed and not described as such? Probably for the same reasons that firearms, despite having an initial cost, are not used up when they are used. See also: vehicles, magical lodge materials, spells, and commlinks. |
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Jul 8 2010, 07:48 PM
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#9
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
That's the whole point. Binding materials are, and have always been, 'ammo', not 'guns'.
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Jul 8 2010, 08:42 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 6-March 10 Member No.: 18,253 |
If you have to pay nuyen in order to rebind, that seems to imply that you're purchasing more materials. I think what it probably means to say is that whatever type of item you used as materials in the first binding - say, incense - then you would have to use incense in the rebinding.
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Jul 8 2010, 08:53 PM
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#11
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Hehe, let's assume that you have to buy more, but also that they're not consumed. I have this image of a crazy 'hoarder' conjurer… (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Jul 9 2010, 04:02 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 829 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 770 |
The pack-rat shaman has been done...frequently.
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Jul 9 2010, 07:51 PM
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#13
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
QUOTE (Mr. Unpronounceable @ Jul 9 2010, 11:02 AM) The pack-rat shaman has been done...frequently. Yeah, but how many have NOT been Rat Shamans? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) |
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Jul 9 2010, 07:56 PM
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#14
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Yeah, but how many have done it because of an error in game rules? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Jul 9 2010, 09:36 PM
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#15
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,179 Joined: 10-June 10 From: St. Louis, UCAS/CAS Border Member No.: 18,688 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jul 8 2010, 08:53 PM) Hehe, let's assume that you have to buy more, but also that they're not consumed. I have this image of a crazy 'hoarder' conjurer… (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) They're otherwise known as 'talismongers', Yera. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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Jul 9 2010, 09:39 PM
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#16
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
GROAN. They're supposed to mong them, not hoard them.
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Jul 9 2010, 09:42 PM
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#17
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,179 Joined: 10-June 10 From: St. Louis, UCAS/CAS Border Member No.: 18,688 |
Supposed to. I haven't known any to be out of stock of anything.
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