[X] My Assistant

[Hagga]

Haha, but if you don't think *every* runner can credibly make that same threat, you're not deep enough in the shadows. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Being eaten alive is a whole other thing to being shot.

[Yerameyahu]

That's the threat I meant! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Runners are professional psychopaths, and the 'professional' bit is debatable.

[hermit]

1) Is there a community of ghouls in Seattle, or do they live as they can?

Several smaller, mostly in the sewers. No bGhoultown or anything.

2) Is there an official bounty of ghouls?

Yes. 500 per ghoul, used to be much higher though.

3) Where do they get food? At 5% body weight per month, a body 11 ghoul has to eat quite a bit, and clone meat gets very expensive, very fast.

Attack NPC, try to attack PC and be killed. Also, Tamanous.

4) How many ghouls are there? I imagine there is a strict cap on ghoul population based on supply of metahuman flesh, tied in to the harvestable percentage of deaths per year. But what would that percentage be? 1%? 5%?

1%, since they make up half of Seattle's "Other" population of 2%.

5) Would a ghoul running a funeral home with the promise of the bodies not coming back as a shedim be enough to keep the place from getting burned down by concerned citizens?

No.

6) How do you play a ghoul as a character with enough redeeming qualities to not simply be a monster?

Not at all? Well, you could bo the bleeding heart but I am yet human emo route or something. Play off the teen angst everyone hates me trope and all. Only thing these characters are good for, IMO.

Runners are professional psychopaths, and the 'professional' bit is debatable.

And here I thought runners were mercenaries with a more agent type of skill and operations focus. SpecOps for hire, if you will. Would you call every soldier a psychopath?

[Medicineman]

The Bounty on Ghouls is 1500 ¥ per Head both in the CAS and in the UCAS
(Wildwechsel = German Running Wild Pg 72)

and by RAW the vector for the Virus is Contact so sooner or later everybody in his vicinity
will either be a Ghoul himself or Dead (if his Essence is <1 )

he who dances with the Dead
Medicineman

[Patrick Goodman]

The Bounty on Ghouls is 1500 ¥ per Head both in the CAS and in the UCAS
(Wildwechsel = German Running Wild Pg 72)

That's the same figure in the English version of the book, though the page reference in the English version is page 64.

and by RAW the vector for the Virus is Contact so sooner or later everybody in his vicinity
will either be a Ghoul himself or Dead (if his Essence is <1 )

I'm working on that bit, honest to God.

[Medicineman]

I'm working on that bit, honest to God.
a good Houserule (practised by some of the Groups I know and both Groups I'm playing in)
is to change the Vector to Injection and lower the Power to 5 or 6.
This might give some of the tougher Chars a Chance to survive the Virus
(though it's still impossible for Joe Normal )

with a Survivaldance
Medicineman

[HappyDaze]

You could try for a group of 'penitent' ghoul adepts that hunt down Shedim to consume their vessels. They may even have a metamagic to allow them to gain power from doing so.

[Yerameyahu]

hermit, you're no fun. Yes, fine, many runners are incredibly boring ice cold pros, metahuman robots with no feelings except doing the job. Not interesting nutballs at all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) And, no, they're not soldiers.

[hermit]

hermit, you're no fun. Yes, fine, many runners are incredibly boring ice cold pros, metahuman robots with no feelings except doing the job. Not interesting nutballs at all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) And, no, they're not soldiers.

I find interesting nutballs not very interesting, but then again, I used to when I was younger. Still, there is some middle ground between ice cold pro and grautitious psychopathy. And runners are mercenaries, which is closer to soldiers than anything else in work ethics, if not in legality and perception.

Yes, a LOL psycho character can be fun to play every couple times; I have a character like that too. His name's Kenny McCormick, Street name Kyle [random overdone teenage cool thing like Shadowangel]. I play this character fully expecting him to die though. So far, he died by some NPC twice and four times by a fellow PC. And lived two times. I was disappoint in the GM.

I don't agree that this kind is the common shadowrunner; if they were, the whole idea of hiring them to get work done falls apart, and corps would just use their own squads of deep cover agents, who'd behave a lot more professional than some Duke rip.

[Yerameyahu]

I always play the game ice cold pro, but I understand that cyberpunk is pink mohawk. I consider my preferred style to be metagaming, and I'm okay with it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[hermit]

Where would it be written in stone that cyberpunk is pink mohawk?

[SkepticInc]

I'm working on that bit, honest to God.
a good Houserule (practised by some of the Groups I know and both Groups I'm playing in)
is to change the Vector to Injection and lower the Power to 5 or 6.
This might give some of the tougher Chars a Chance to survive the Virus
(though it's still impossible for Joe Normal )

Another way to fix this one could be Orthoskin. Since Ghouls have nasty skin problems, they are likely covered in infectious material all the time. A quick skin replacement should narrow down the locations on a metahuman body that the virus can exude from. That way clawing, bleeding coughs, biting, and nookie are still ways to spread it, but it isn't a 28 Days Later scenario.

[Yerameyahu]

Well, Ortho is subdermal, so I don't think it would help any. FFBA, yes, and always a good idea. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Add a helmet, and you're not (mundanely) obvious as a monster.

[Nifft]

What's the deal with Ghouls & Cybereyes? Is their blindness "curable" by common tech?

[Yerameyahu]

Yes. Also, why can't they just wear trodes and a couple cameras?

[hermit]

Because the transformation damages their visual cortex. Their blindness isn't just the eyes. Otherwise they could simply get cyber replacement. Of course, if the area in your brain that processes images is gone, SimSense camers aren't gonna do you any good.

[Drace]

I remember in 2nd edition there was a section of the Ork Underground that was called dark side or night town or something else ominous that was a section of the OU that was mostly HMHVV infected (Ghouls being the majority) but it seems that it has been ignored to unexistance.

Also, both sr 2,3 and 4 have it where cyber eyes can allow a ghoul to see normally without having to use astral sight for everything, counteracting their blindness if they can find a doc to do the surgery. (PG 33 Runners companion for sr3, and pg 80 of runners companion for sr4)

Also, ghouls can eat ANY raw meat, just they have to eat a certain amount of metahuman, non-clone, meat. If they only survived off what they are listed as needing (5% of wieght a month i think) they would die very quickly from starvation. If a person weighed 180 lbs for example, they would have to eat 9 pounds of metahuman flesh a month, while the average person I am pretty sure eats .5-1 lbs of food a day.

Also, I am pretty sure that there is plastic surgery and other cosmetic bioware that can partially fix their skin pigmentation and the hair loss can be blamed on any number of diseases, same with their smell too actually.

[Nifft]

Because the transformation damages their visual cortex. Their blindness isn't just the eyes. Otherwise they could simply get cyber replacement. Of course, if the area in your brain that processes images is gone, SimSense camers aren't gonna do you any good.

Where does it say that?

The only flavor justification for ghoul blindness I can find is in Runner's Companion p.62:

the development of filmy cataracts and lesions in the eyes,

[SkepticInc]

Well, Ortho is subdermal, so I don't think it would help any. FFBA, yes, and always a good idea. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Add a helmet, and you're not (mundanely) obvious as a monster.

Well, I'll be damned. I hadn't noticed that Orthoskin and Dermal Sheathing are woven into or under the skin. I guess you have to use the Altskin Nanopaste if you want to cover up, and that gets very expensive at 1,500 nY per day.

Because the transformation damages their visual cortex. Their blindness isn't just the eyes. Otherwise they could simply get cyber replacement. Of course, if the area in your brain that processes images is gone, SimSense camers aren't gonna do you any good.

It doesn't actually. In 4th Ed at least, the rules specifically declare that the blindness is curable with cybereyes.

$imon$ez:
Augmentation p80
"Ghoul
Cost: 35 BP
This quality may only be taken by characters of any metatype. The new ghoul's skin becomes rough and scabrous. Body and facial hair fall out during the first few days. Fingers elongate and nails harden into claws. Teeth become more pronounced, and while the eyes blind under white cataracts, his senses of hearing and smell become hyperactive.
Powers: Dual Natured, Enhanced Senses (Hearing, Smell), and Natural Weapon (Claws: DV Str/2+1P, AP 0) Weaknesses: Allergy (Sunlight, Mild), Dietary Requirement (Metahuman Flesh), and Reduced Senses (Blind; –6 dice modifier to all tests involving purely physical sight). Ghoul characters can overcome their Reduced Senses by taking cybereyes. Ghouls can only easily digest raw meat; cooked meat makes them sick and causes nausea (see p. 245, SR4)."
$imoff::

-- $imon$ez is an opensource [Knowsoft]::code provided by TrnZhX --

[hermit]

It doesn't actually. In 4th Ed at least, the rules specifically declare that the blindness is curable with cybereyes.

Seems I misremembered. So why not get cybereyes and instead make do with cameras or some such stuff?

[Nifft]

Well, I'll be damned. I hadn't noticed that Orthoskin and Dermal Sheathing are woven into or under the skin. I guess you have to use the Altskin Nanopaste if you want to cover up, and that gets very expensive at 1,500 nY per day.

Dermal Sheath is expensive in terms of Essence, but it'll cover you completely.

It seems to me that a pair of cyber-hands (to go along with your cyber-eyes) are a good solution, since every other part can be covered up by form-fitting body armor.

The bioware "clean metabolism" might also be a good addition, to reduce any giveaway body odor.

There's "silky skin" bioware, but it notes that the treatment isn't self-maintaining, so you might need to repeat it regularly as HMHVV eats the treatment away.

Same deal for "hair growth" bioware, maybe HMHVV will make it fall out. Perhaps get "fiberoptic hair" cyberware instead.

[Yerameyahu]

Yup, ghouls have physical and not neurological blindness. Good times. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Call me crazy, but I just assumed you could wear gloves with your FFBA and motorcycle helmet (or ninja mask). Or, take that (extra-creepy) ghoul variant that doesn't get the (super weak anyway) claws; with them, you have to explain why your limbs are so long, though.

[Nifft]

Sure, you can wear a motorcycle helmet and gloves all the time -- if you never, ever need to get past any form of security.

With the cyberhands, you can wear the same gloves, but you won't arouse suspicion due to strange claw-like protrusions. Also, you have a human-compatible excuse: "Sorry, didn't mean to act suspicious, I'm just not totally comfortable with my hands since ... sniff ... since the accident. Sniff."

That's also why I like the fiber optic hair: it hides your scabby, pustulant baldness, while giving the impression that you're some kind of body-mod freak, which can serve to excuse otherwise suspicious hints of your infection.

[Hagga]

Yes. Also, why can't they just wear trodes and a couple cameras?

They do; it's mnentioned in the 6WA. In Asamando.

Because the transformation damages their visual cortex. Their blindness isn't just the eyes. Otherwise they could simply get cyber replacement. Of course, if the area in your brain that processes images is gone, SimSense camers aren't gonna do you any good.

It's really just the eyes. Even says it in RC.

[HappyDaze]

It's really just the eyes. Even says it in RC.

They also contradict this in RC when they talk about Reduced (Sense) and how HMHVV-inflicted versions are neurological by default. Face it, rules-wise, RC is a bad joke.