 Gnomes?, They really start with a 3 str? |
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 Jul 9 2010, 01:04 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 448 Joined: 20-July 09 From: Detroit Member No.: 17,413  |
Something about that seems off to me. It says in their description that they basically stop maturing at age 8. I know my wording is off there, but that's the body they have effectively. Hence the neonety (Spelling is very off I think, but it gives them 6+half body instead of 8+). So a metatype that has less mature body shouldn't get a bonus to str, or am I just crazy? Or did I miss something?
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Jul 9 2010, 01:15 AM
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#2
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,705 Joined: 5-October 09 From: You are in a clearing Member No.: 17,722 |
Yeah, it would make more sense to give them Str2 and Agl2 than Str3, but thems the stats.
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Jul 9 2010, 01:33 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 448 Joined: 20-July 09 From: Detroit Member No.: 17,413 |
QUOTE (Saint Sithney @ Jul 8 2010, 09:15 PM)  Yeah, it would make more sense to give them Str2 and Agl2 than Str3, but thems the stats. Okay, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something somewhere that said they had lower strength and body for the bonus of one of the best qualities in the game. Arcane Arrester |
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Jul 9 2010, 01:37 AM
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#4
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,431 Joined: 3-December 03 Member No.: 5,872 |
It is the flaw in making things metavariants instead of new metatypes. They are based on the dwarf type so there stats are base dwarf with some minor mods that fall within the changeling rules. In SR3 I think they called things variants but just changed the stats around as they saw fit. I think in this regard SR3 had the better solution.
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Jul 9 2010, 01:47 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 825 Joined: 21-October 08 Member No.: 16,538 |
Just take Impaired (strength). Extra bp!
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Jul 9 2010, 01:49 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 448 Joined: 20-July 09 From: Detroit Member No.: 17,413 |
QUOTE (Hagga @ Jul 8 2010, 09:47 PM) Just take Impaired (strength). Extra bp! Well if I'm playing one, I'm not going to complain. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) I just noticed it when I was reading through the metavariants. Haha |
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Jul 9 2010, 01:57 AM
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#7
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,431 Joined: 3-December 03 Member No.: 5,872 |
Gnomes like a dwarf but much more bad ass. 1/2 the force of hostile spells? Yes please.
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Jul 9 2010, 02:07 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 825 Joined: 21-October 08 Member No.: 16,538 |
QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Jul 9 2010, 01:57 AM) Gnomes like a dwarf but much more bad ass. 1/2 the force of hostile spells? Yes please. The person who came up with Arcane Arrester should be shot. After a while of throwing people with that quality at my players, I forgot how to use regular anti-magic tactics. *facepalm* |
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Jul 9 2010, 02:25 AM
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#9
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,431 Joined: 3-December 03 Member No.: 5,872 |
QUOTE (Hagga @ Jul 8 2010, 09:07 PM) The person who came up with Arcane Arrester should be shot. After a while of throwing people with that quality at my players, I forgot how to use regular anti-magic tactics. *facepalm* Arcane arrester feels like a patch. Ah crap magic is too powerful lets make a talent that nerfs it... Well it actually kind of works out because the spells hit at the probably game balance intended force of magic instead of magicx2. |
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Jul 9 2010, 12:20 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 572 Joined: 6-February 09 From: London Uk Member No.: 16,848 |
In my understanding Dwarfs are supposed to be stronger then humans generally (something about denser muscles) so a Younger looking Dwarf being the same strength as a average human isnt to far fetched if you take the line that Base 3's in a human is about typical.
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Jul 9 2010, 12:37 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 419 Joined: 22-May 10 From: Germany Member No.: 18,604 |
But they start with 3 strength so an average gnome would have strength 5.
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Jul 9 2010, 01:45 PM
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#12
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
I guess they're just magically strong little buggers.
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Jul 9 2010, 02:08 PM
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#13
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
They're small, but fierce!
And probably have that "Muscle Structure similar to Lizards" deal going that Dwarves have. |
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Jul 9 2010, 02:18 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 572 Joined: 6-February 09 From: London Uk Member No.: 16,848 |
QUOTE (Combat Mage @ Jul 9 2010, 01:37 PM) But they start with 3 strength so an average gnome would have strength 5. Thats the point with the average thing. If a base line for a race is N and the average is N+2 then yes a dwarf average strength is 5 with troll average strengeth being 7 which is above that of all but the most amazing natural humans. It does appear to be inline with rules and setting |
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Jul 9 2010, 02:39 PM
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#15
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Target Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 3-July 10 Member No.: 18,789 |
Personally I dont think Dwarfs should have any bonus to strength.
The higher muscle density should be offset by their lack of leverage due to smaller size. I would give them the same strength range as humans - thats already a big effective bonus? Making them tougher is fair enough though. |
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Jul 9 2010, 02:44 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 572 Joined: 6-February 09 From: London Uk Member No.: 16,848 |
QUOTE (Venom @ Jul 9 2010, 03:39 PM) Personally I dont think Dwarfs should have any bonus to strength. The higher muscle density should be offset by their lack of leverage due to smaller size. I would give them the same strength range as humans - thats already a big effective bonus? Making them tougher is fair enough though. Well I would say if your that concerned ask your GM to swap strength for body in this case for the bonuses. Each to their own. |
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Jul 11 2010, 05:31 PM
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#17
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,679 Joined: 19-September 09 Member No.: 17,652 |
QUOTE (Venom @ Jul 9 2010, 09:39 AM) Personally I dont think Dwarfs should have any bonus to strength. The higher muscle density should be offset by their lack of leverage due to smaller size. I would give them the same strength range as humans - thats already a big effective bonus? Making them tougher is fair enough though. Depends on what they are using the strength for. Most of the time though leverage isn't an issue when strength is applied. Gripping something, lifting something that isn't unwieldy, holding closed a door, whatever. I do agree though, that since a dwarf is smaller, the high muscle density should simply offset the fact that they are smaller, meaning they don't get a penalty as opposed to giving a bonus over a human. |
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Jul 11 2010, 05:35 PM
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#18
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
So, they have *much* higher 'muscle density' then. It's just fluff, after all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Jul 11 2010, 05:41 PM
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#19
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,679 Joined: 19-September 09 Member No.: 17,652 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jul 11 2010, 12:35 PM) So, they have *much* higher 'muscle density' then. It's just fluff, after all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Now the only image I can manage in my head is of midget body builders for dwarves (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) |
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Jul 11 2010, 05:47 PM
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#20
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,431 Joined: 3-December 03 Member No.: 5,872 |
Well I've always viewed dwarves as almost as wide as they are tall, with super broad shoulders even for a human sized guy. And besides who wants weak dwarves. Though gnomes yeah I got nothing.
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Jul 11 2010, 06:24 PM
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#21
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
Gnome with everything pumped into strength and then dwarfism as a flaw.
Blue-Skin and you have either SMURFS or the Wee Free Men, the Nac Mac Feegle. |
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Jul 12 2010, 07:32 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 829 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 770 |
QUOTE (Karoline @ Jul 11 2010, 06:31 PM) Depends on what they are using the strength for. Most of the time though leverage isn't an issue when strength is applied. Gripping something, lifting something that isn't unwieldy, holding closed a door, whatever. I do agree though, that since a dwarf is smaller, the high muscle density should simply offset the fact that they are smaller, meaning they don't get a penalty as opposed to giving a bonus over a human. It doesn't always work that way. For instance, they did a strength experiment with chimps once. A 165 lb man could do a one-handed pull of 210 lbs. A 165 lb male chimp did one of 847 lbs. A 135 lb female chimp pulled 1260 lbs. |
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Jul 12 2010, 07:32 PM
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#23
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Conclusion: stay the hell away from chimps.
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Jul 12 2010, 07:35 PM
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#24
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jul 12 2010, 02:32 PM) Conclusion: stay the hell away from chimps. Exactly. They can throw poo really, really hard! |
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Jul 12 2010, 07:36 PM
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#25
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
Well, they are about the same size as dwarfs . . but they don't even LOOK that strong O.o
Dwarves at least have the decency to be the burly muscular type usually . . |
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