[X] My Assistant

[Yerameyahu]

But, if you can enjoy it, you can defend it. As in, 'I enjoy it, period.' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Lanlaorn]

Well I'm not sure anyone who says it's good is praising it's accidental comedy, but that's fair enough. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Back to the thread, you should also get creative with what the 'non-hackers' are helping with. Think like a con-artist team (Leverage, Hustle, etc.): stealthy one, tanky one, overwatch, distraction–everything that a normal runner group would use in reality. For example, anyone with a commlink can log into the public 'area' and just kind of watch security responses, when a public account even exists. At the risk of turning the game into Matrixrun, this sounds really fun to me (cuz I'm always alone in the Matrix. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) ).

[SkepticInc]

Well I can enjoy them, like I said "So Bad It's Hilarious", it's just I can't take seriously any defense of them.

If you really want to see me rant we can talk about the Starship Troopers movie. Talk about plot and character butchery. Those dumb motherfuckers didn't even make a good "dumb action movie", and seriously, cutting the powered armor? Madness. Heinlein is probably still spinning in his grave.

This movie made me cry. Literally. The Ghost of Heinlein came to me while I was watching and asked me to put him out of his misery. Like any honorable soul I had to build a device that would let a ghost commit suicide and then stood honor guard for him while he used it. The moment before his ghost disappeared into oblivion, he finally smiled again.

[Androcomputus]

The idea of having people grab their com-links and join he team dedicated hacker in the matrix for part of the run came from the typical combat.

combat monsters doing the heavy lifting while non combat specialist support the combat monster by laying suppressive fire, lobbing grenades, and generally making sure that the combat monster does not get swarmed by the enemies' superior amount of actions.

Hacking wise, what would they be equipped with, what kind of actions are the equivalent to "laying suppressive fire, lobbing grenades, and generally making sure that the matrix monster does not get swarmed by the enemies' superior amount of actions."

[Yerameyahu]

Exactly, sounds great, as long as that's what your players want. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) If they want to really fill those Matrix rolls, they'll need a bit of equipping, of course. Luckily, LOG doesn't matter, and skill only matters a little.

[tete]

More like scarred for life, that movie is an embarrassment to anyone who's even touched a computer.

I disagree, I think its the closest Hollywood ever actually came to using real terms. Ping Pong virus, Rabbit in the System, they also co-mingled Intel and Mac chips(Pentium with RISC) but they actually used the terms. While a few films may be more realistic (maybe) they dont use real world terms.

we did end up with Henry Rollins, Ice-T,

I just like to point out that the best acting was done by the singers...


Back on Topic
As strange as this sounds if your going to have group hacking (which is awesome) provided everyone is involved you could break out a 1e system map. It would actually be fun to do as a group.

[biccat]

More like scarred for life, that movie is an embarrassment to anyone who's even touched a computer.

Well, to quote SMBC, "[t]here is a reason movies never portray hacking realistically."

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well I can enjoy them, like I said "So Bad It's Hilarious", it's just I can't take seriously any defense of them.

If you really want to see me rant we can talk about the Starship Troopers movie. Talk about plot and character butchery. Those dumb motherfuckers didn't even make a good "dumb action movie", and seriously, cutting the powered armor? Madness. Heinlein is probably still spinning in his grave.

Doubt it... Starship Troopers actually made the estate some money... Though I can't vouch for the 2nd and 3rd ones...

Keep the Faith

[yukami]

if the GM or the team hacker doesn't have something worthwhile to hack during the 9 or so seconds it takes to mow somebody down, then one or both of you aren't being creative enough XD likewise, street same could check their pockets to make sure they didn't drop anything while hacky-mchackerson opens a door. SR4 by its nature seems designed to run on multiple levels simulataneously - it's part of achieving the game's full potential, as far as i am concerned

also, hackers is a great movie. penn jillette, angelina jolie (topless!), awesome soundtrack, macs, and everytime you find some hole in the plot/setting/writing, said hole is just oozing style! what's not to love ^_^

[hobgoblin]

I disagree, I think its the closest Hollywood ever actually came to using real terms. Ping Pong virus, Rabbit in the System, they also co-mingled Intel and Mac chips(Pentium with RISC) but they actually used the terms. While a few films may be more realistic (maybe) they dont use real world terms.

funny thing is, a modern day intel chip have internal RISC microcode, but a x86 translator for backwards-compatibility.

[hobgoblin]

angelina jolie (topless!)

depends on what release version you get hold of. Iirc, the scene was shortened for the video/TV release.

[Yerameyahu]

I always assumed that RISC machine was a custom job, neither a Mac nor a PC. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[hobgoblin]

I always assumed that RISC machine was a custom job, neither a Mac nor a PC. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

heh, its more about the number of specialized commands in the CPUs instruction set. Back when they where slow and expensive (relative to today at least), companies used to add specialized instructions for various multi-step math operations so that they could be done in one cycle or there about (if the programmer and/or compiler made use of them) rather then multiple.

but as the hardware picked up speed, and it was found that these specialized instructions was rarely used, the idea of stripping the instructions back to basics came about.

[Yerameyahu]

I know what RISC is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) I meant that, while Macs of the time were RISC and PCs were CISC, the laptop in the movie was some Linux-style thing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[hobgoblin]

i dont think linux was much of a topic back then.

[Yerameyahu]

That's why I said '-style'. That is, a custom system. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The easiest thing would be whatever historically appropriate UNIX. BSD? Whichever, it's just command lines.

[deek]

I think it is a good call to get the whole party in the matrix when the hacker is doing his thing (assuming they other characters are available). I think that would solve the majority of matrix slow-down problems in the campaigns I have run.

The downsides are that some players may have no desire to learn any matrix stuff and choose to opt out, yet still be bored. I could also see that some may feel it unfair to force them to put resources towards more matrix stuff during chargen. Now, if you outline this before chargen and maybe even give some bonus skill/software/equipment to get everyone at a base matrix competency level.

I think its a good idea and if you can get the players to all buy in and when its time to hack everyone just gets used to using matrix actions and helping out, its should actually be fun!

[SkepticInc]

AR is part of the Matrix, and a sufficiently wired grunt has almost as many passes as the hacker does. Since AR is sculpted to overlay the real world, there is no reason you can't have your combat monsters doing things in the middle of combat that are Matrix related.

Here is a little scenario:

Alice the hacker is trying to get into Eve corporations security network in the middle of a fight. She has 4 Matrix passes.

Bob the street sam has 3 physical passes. One of his jobs in combat is to attach a Signal 1 retrans unit on any opposing forces that he can manage, so that Alice can start hacking cyberware. Since he can also take shots better than Alice, Bob is responsible for getting to AROs' physical tags and hitting them with the tag eraser to remove evidence that they were ever there (even if people see your face, if there is not recording of it in a world where everything is recorded, it never happened).

I'm sure GM's are much more clever than I am at coming up with requirements for Matrix actions that need a meat body to get somewhere to do some hacking.

[deek]

That's a good example of marrying objectives that combine meat and matrix IPs.

Most of the time I've seen a hacker need to do something in the matrix, the rest of the part was able to wait in the meat world, whether that was during a car ride, sitting in their apartment or waiting at the front door of the building. Its THOSE time that having the whole group involved, when otherwise they'd have the option of waiting, that would be nice to get everyone in the matrix and do stuff.

[Emy]

I'd slap a skinlink on the retrans unit as well, for if Bob manages to get it on the enemy's skin or weapons. Just in case, for example, the enemy has a skinlinked, smartlinked Ares Alpha with the wireless turned off. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[SkepticInc]

I do like finding ways for Meat/Magic/Matrix to all be engaged at the same time, all the time, for exactly the reasons this thread was started. I either use split objectives so Meat people that don't want to play with the Matrix don't have to, or I suggest they get Agents with a similar Persona to the runner so they can be present and have the excuse to offer advice. Getting others involved in Magic is a down right bitch though. The second time you drug your party with Deepweed or use the Astral Gate Spirit Power on them, they just start kicking you in the face. So what I'm forced to do is to have the runners targets use more Manatech than actual Magic, so the Meat and Matrix parts of the team can go after the glow moss alarms, or the Leeches on the walls, or things like that. Magic is currently my weak point. Sadness.