Infection In missions, Contains spoilers for Jackknifed act accordingly Options

[LurkerOutThere]

So in Jackknifed one of the characters ran off alone in the darkened tunnel to get his gear while the rest were working out what to do about the truck. He was ambushed rather spectacularly by Tunnel Bob and knocked out in one go. Guess the beliefe that your the baddest thing on the block doesn't hold up well at TR6 when facing another troll, or what was once a troll. Anyway in order to prevent instant death I had Peaceman and 3V come by and interrupt Bob's meal and then pick up and stabilize the troll in question. Now my question is given the somewhat incomplete nature of the statblocks in that mission should I had him roll against infection? The infection rules are a mess but they seem to be pretty much a death sentence and that just didn't seem right.

[Black Jack Rackh...]

:Quick bit of honesty:
I'd always secretly hoped for EXACTLY this outcome (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)
Mark

As for your question, (and I'm quite certain you already considered this), is this an official game? If not it's entirely up to you. If so, well you did say this is TR 6. And I'm betting the character in question was one of those gunning for that high a table rating. My policy has always been mercy until 6. Then, you know (or ought to know) exactly what you're getting yourself into.

[Bull]

We want players to have fun. That should always be our first and foremost goal for Missions as GMs and writers.

However, we're also not there to coddle stupid players. Especially at Table Rating 6. If it's a home game or Non-Official mission, then do whatever you like. If it's an official Missions game, well... Go ahead and roll for infection. If he fails it, he's effectively dead since Ghouls are not a valid character type (and the infection rules are currently borked for them anyways).

Bull

[Wasabi]

In all fairness while 'Ghoul' is not a valid character creation method there is no retconning in Missions per the FAQ. This no-retconning rules makes having something illegal become absolutely legal by the current FAQ. You're not allowed to GET it but are allowed to HAVE it.

[LurkerOutThere]

We want players to have fun. That should always be our first and foremost goal for Missions as GMs and writers.

However, we're also not there to coddle stupid players. Especially at Table Rating 6. If it's a home game or Non-Official mission, then do whatever you like. If it's an official Missions game, well... Go ahead and roll for infection. If he fails it, he's effectively dead since Ghouls are not a valid character type (and the infection rules are currently borked for them anyways).

Bull

I tend to agree for Wasabi, actually since Tunnel Bob doesn't have the infection power or the carrier quality I'm not sure he can infect people. It's a sticky situation and the rules are actually contradictory. That is my major point of concern, I actually think I have a fairly good handle on the SR rules but the infection ones always make me scratch my head.

[SaintHax]

First, I would have taken him (unbelievable perception, melee ((adept)), and soak); second, you can use the spoiler tag for this. I've played this mod, and man I wish I could have solo'd this guy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

In all fairness while 'Ghoul' is not a valid character creation method there is no retconning in Missions per the FAQ. This no-retconning rules makes having something illegal become absolutely legal by the current FAQ. You're not allowed to GET it but are allowed to HAVE it.

I don't agree w/ Wasabi, as the Infection power states you are removed from game and become a NPC. So, by RAW, you are no longer a PC. However, a ghoul doesn't have the infection power. Had this been a Dzoo-Noo-Qua, then it'd be another story.

I know Bull has the final say now, but I'd like to express my concurrence. If there is no possibility of death at the highest tier, the game offers no challenge. Some fun story telling, but I might as well have played at TR-lower then. I play at TR-6 and I want the GM to bring it. Seriously, I want a Dzoo-Noo-Qua thrown at me, else I'd not picked TR-6.

[LurkerOutThere]

Well the proiblem is twofold:

The statblocks, all the statblock for the critters in that module are missing quite a bit for example one of the critters is missing the exotic ranged skill for it's built in exotic range weapon, as well as the unarmed combat skill, skills which by the main book statblocks they have. Likewise i'm prety sure the though the enemy in question was intended to be a Dzoo-no-Qua but I don't recall them actually having the infection power. Moreover the problem with the way many people are representing TR6 is not actually codified anywhere leading to a consistency issue. For example, my players seem to have gotten the mindset that while TR 6 makes things a lot more difficult it's also where pay starts to finally get to what they expect from a Shadowrun. However I cannot find anywhere other then our own informal lore that says that TR 6 is fundamentally different from TR 5.

So far as I can tell, running by the book and module Tunnel Bob doesn't have the infection power so it seems to me that he can't infect others. If he can and infection is now instant death then it aught to be something that hand of god can cover which I havn't seen anything that disallows that for TR6.

[Chance359]

As one of Lurker's players (and best friend of the previously mentioned troll chew toy). We told him not to run down the dark scary tunnel by himself, he ran down the scary tunnel by himself and this is what happens.

[LurkerOutThere]

Hindsite being 20/20 I likely should have just killed him, but saving him seemed in character for peaceman and more importantly in capability since all the infected are kind of easy pickings for a mage going astral.

[Chance359]

I'd saddle him with the favors flaw. He now owes Peaceman.

[Bull]

p.82-83 of Runners Companion.

"The most characteristic trait shared by all of the Infected is that they are contagious."

Ghouls have HMHVV III, which is particularly nasty and virulent. It's been argued quite a bit on Dumpshock, and it's kind broken and dumb because it's written poorly. They list it as "Contact", which in theory means simply touch, but with Ghouls I'd say you need to be at least bitten or scratched. Either way, it's nasty.

Ghouls do not have the Infection Power, as a note, as that's something different (And is something that can be used, or not, at the Infected's will). But they are simply infectious. Like I said, this is a goofy one, it's overpowering, and it's not well written.

Hand of God works, if the player fails the rolls necessary. But otherwise, treat it like a deadly virus. And it's definitely something that GMs need to be careful of putting in the game, and PCs need to be careful when dealing with.

Bull

[Black Jack Rackh...]

Wait a sec, did someone take my beloved Dzoo-no-Qua and turn him into a ghoul?!?!
Where's my copy of the released mission...
Grumble

Mark

[Black Jack Rackh...]

Likewise i'm pretty sure the though the enemy in question was intended to be a Dzoo-no-Qua but I don't recall them actually having the infection power.

Running Wild p.66

[Bull]

Bah, I thought we were talking Ghoul. I haven't actually read Jacknifed. Go figure (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[LurkerOutThere]

Right but the stat block released in the mission doesn't include the power (or the skills for the hellhounds or the rats for that matter) and a part of me wondered if that was intentional or not. I'm not knocking the mission by any means, as I mentioned at the airport its some of the most fun i've had in SRM, but it's a big problem. I mean if we're going to do inline stats going forward we need to make sure that their complete and consistent.

[Bull]

Agreed.

Generally, stat blocks do not need to be 100% complete. I mean, it's not really going to effect the adventure in any way if you know that Renraku Red Samurai #2 happens to have the knowledge skill "Porn (Centaur) 4 (+2)" or that he has 3 months of low lifestyle prepaid, or that he drives a Ford Americar (Unless of course, Centaur Porn is involved, or the PCs have to rob his house or get involved ina car chase with him. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) Generally, stat blocks only need to include the relevant information for the scene the NPCs are involved in.

However, things like Infection and the like, if it's an actual power that they have, should be included. In the case of a Ghoul, it doesn't need to be listed. THey don't actually have the Infection power, as I noted above. All ghouls are infectious by their nature. Hopefully most GMs are aware of this. But, I will also point out, one of my main mantra's for my writers is "Don't make GMs look anything up if you can help it". So I certainly won't complain if a writer included the fact that Ghouls are infectious, and at least a page number reference. (My other main Mantra, and one that drives most of my writers nuts, is "Table Rating!", as I really want to make sure Table Rating effects as much of the game as possible.)

Bull