Shape shifting mystic adept.........., ...........help cretique/optimize pls.... Options

[iategod]

I have this concept of a shape shifting mystic adept that i would like to optimize some. The concept is that of a NAN member, one of twins, who's brother was born a white eagle which is greatly worshiped in most Amerindian societies. However, the twin brother was born a black bird (crow, raven) which brings animosity toward him. To make a long story short, he's the family's dirty little secret and thus is shadow running while his brother is getting all the glory and respect.

Anyways, the notion i had was more of a gun adept but with spells to compliment his dark side. Such as shadow. He's fragile of sorts and i would like him to be a hit n run type of character, fly in, shoot em up, fly out. Here's what i got so far. I'm trying to stay at 750 karma, although i have an extra 50 after chargen to fill in some spaces if need be.

[ Spoiler ]

Stats
Human
shapeshifter
mystic adept
(there's no starting stats for crow shapeshifter so i stuck with eagle stats. I realize i'm over 375 limit for stats (not including magic), consider it karma dumping)
4-body (45)
5-agility (70)
5-reaction (70)
2-str (10)
5-char (60)
5-int (70)
3-logic (25)
5-will (45)
2-edge
6-magic (100)

(total 395 (495 with magic))

Skills
pistol (semi) 5 (36)
perception (visual) 2 (12)
blades (parry) 3 (18)
counterspelling (combat spells) 4 (26)
spellcasting (manip) 5 (36)
gym (tumbling) 4 (26)
intimidation (torture) 3 (14)

(total 168 (663))

qualities
Ambidextrous (10)
Restric Gear (10)
Mentor Spirit (10)
Hawk eye (10)
Mystic adept (10)

Bad luck (-40)
SINer (-10)
Geas (-10)

Splitting magic either 4 adept, 2 magic casting
Adept powers
Counter strike lvl 1 (.5)
quick draw (.5)
Improv non-combat ability lvl 2 (.5)
attrib boost lvl 2 (.5)
Heightened concentration (1)

Spells
Detect Life form
increase reflex (i got a sustaining focus, one rate3 and the other rating 5.)
invisibility
resist pain
shadow
physical barrier
calm pack
combat sense
heal
??? (Not sure what other spell i should get)

The basic question i have now is what your opinion is on the spells;I plan on using dual Ares Predator IV with axe blades attached to the under barrel, like a gunblade cept they would look like tomahawks for conceptual reasons. Couple that with two weapon fighting style, since full melee defense (parry) is reation+melee skill(5+weapon foci correct?)+combat sense. For range i would go full gymnastics dodge gym+reaction+combat sense+improv non-combat ability (adept power, it's really cheap for the extra +6 die).

As for my casting i was going to cast improv reflexes for the max +3 ip then use my sustaining focus for that, then over cast combat senses. Something like 10 or 12 (if i can) then my drain value would be 7 or 8, i'd roll to resist it and whatever i don't resist, at the end of the combat turn i can regen it since i'm a shape shifter. Since it's a sustaining spell, i'd get adept centering to take care of that penalty. The shadow spell i can cast and negate the effect (if i suffer from it as well) with heightened concentration.

I feel like i'm missing something in this build but i can't place my finger on it. I'm not even sure if i should even bother with the pistols and just go for melee, since i can fly in very fast, cover a lot of ground. I could even drop the pistol skills and get a few lower level stealth type skills... hmmm

[Laodicea]

I'm just going to leave this here: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...853&hl=lion
tldr: dont use the shapeshifter character creation rules. Use the Shapechange(Raven) spell.

[iategod]

I'm just going to leave this here: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...853&hl=lion
tldr: dont use the shapeshifter character creation rules. Use the Shapechange(Raven) spell.

I considered that. But i really like the regeneration shapeshifters get. Not to mention the story elements

[Ard3]

Nice concept, but there are few things incorrect.

You cant have improved ability 6. The bonus is capped at 1.5 x skill. With skill 4 max bonus you can get is 2, 3 if you raise skill to 6.
And max overcasting Force is capped at 2 x Magic used in spellcasting = 4.

Since you cant use Improved skill at 6, drop it to 2 and you have 1 free point of magic for either other powers or to spellcasting. If you put it to spellcasting your maximums for casting would be 3 safe and 6 overcast.

[iategod]

Nice concept, but there are few things incorrect.

You cant have improved ability 6. The bonus is capped at 1.5 x skill. With skill 4 max bonus you can get is 2, 3 if you raise skill to 6.
And max overcasting Force is capped at 2 x Magic used in spellcasting = 4.

Since you cant use Improved skill at 6, drop it to 2 and you have 1 free point of magic for either other powers or to spellcasting. If you put it to spellcasting your maximums for casting would be 3 safe and 6 overcast.

Thx, i fixed the build with the new improv ability lvl.

[Nifft]

And max overcasting Force is capped at 2 x Magic used in spellcasting = 4.

If he's playing 4e 20th Anniversary, he uses his full Magic attribute to determine where overcasting starts. He only has a few dice to roll to cast, but he keep all the other benefits of Magic 5.

My question is: how are you going to get the guns in with you? You don't get extradimensional storage when you Shift, do you? Your clothes just fall off, and you drop whatever you were holding.

I'd go with spellcasting & combat spells instead of guns.

[Belvidere]

Now I may be wrong from what I know of Shapeshifters but according to fluff, aren't they animals who can turn into humans? Therefore how is a Crow/Raven brother to an Eagle? They're completely different species. Along with I don't really know how you'd fly in, shoot then fly out because I'm also pretty sure your gear doesn't shapeshift with you.

[iategod]

If he's playing 4e 20th Anniversary, he uses his full Magic attribute to determine where overcasting starts. He only has a few dice to roll to cast, but he keep all the other benefits of Magic 5.

My question is: how are you going to get the guns in with you? You don't get extradimensional storage when you Shift, do you? Your clothes just fall off, and you drop whatever you were holding.

I'd go with spellcasting & combat spells instead of guns.

Hmmm maybe that's the thing that I was missing. I assumed that I could keep my guns cause when I asked my gm bout armor and I get any, he said that I could get some, customized that is for a cost. So I figure if I could wear the same armor from normal to human form then my other stuff would come along. I'll have to confirm this once again with my gm. After all, it is magic (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

I'm debating now if I should go with touch based damage spells and a few range rather than guns. I just like options for continuous growth, I can increase my adept portion, or physical combat, or casting. I also like the simple action attacks.

[iategod]

Double

[sn0mm1s]

If he's playing 4e 20th Anniversary, he uses his full Magic attribute to determine where overcasting starts. He only has a few dice to roll to cast, but he keep all the other benefits of Magic 5.

My question is: how are you going to get the guns in with you? You don't get extradimensional storage when you Shift, do you? Your clothes just fall off, and you drop whatever you were holding.

I'd go with spellcasting & combat spells instead of guns.

*IF* they are using the latest FAQ then he doesn't get to use his full Magic attribute towards spellcasting - only those points actually put towards Magic.

[Nifft]

*IF* they are using the latest FAQ then he doesn't get to use his full Magic attribute towards spellcasting - only those points actually put towards Magic.

IF the FAQ is supposed to change rules (rather than clarifying them), then maybe... but that was a FAQ to a rule that existed in 4e, so there's a good chance it just got left in place when the 4e20a stuff got added.

That's two big "if"s: whether the FAQ is supposed to change rules, and whether that particular FAQ item has anything to do with "the latest".

(My personal advice is to ignore the FAQ until they get the 4e/4a stuff sorted out. Blatant contradiction of current rules isn't a FAQ answer, it's a rules change -- update, errata, whatever you want to call it. It's a change, not a clarification.)

- - -

Anyway. Going by either set of rules, I don't see any way for you to carry a gun.

[iategod]

IF the FAQ is supposed to change rules (rather than clarifying them), then maybe... but that was a FAQ to a rule that existed in 4e, so there's a good chance it just got left in place when the 4e20a stuff got added.

That's two big "if"s: whether the FAQ is supposed to change rules, and whether that particular FAQ item has anything to do with "the latest".

(My personal advice is to ignore the FAQ until they get the 4e/4a stuff sorted out. Blatant contradiction of current rules isn't a FAQ answer, it's a rules change -- update, errata, whatever you want to call it. It's a change, not a clarification.)

- - -

Anyway. Going by either set of rules, I don't see any way for you to carry a gun.

Ya, I'm asking my gm bout the guns and all but in any case I think I'm going to go with the previous suggestion and do spell casting for damage. As for the magic, we have had the question come up a few times in our sessions and the gm rules that we roll using the amount of magic we have in the stat, not what we used split, so that's the 4e 20th Anniversary rules..... I'll have to change the build a bit.

[Mäx]

I have this concept of a shape shifting mystic adept that i would like to optimize some. The concept is that of a NAN member, one of twins, who's brother was born a white eagle which is greatly worshiped in most Amerindian societies. However, the twin brother was born a black bird (crow, raven) which brings animosity toward him. To make a long story short, he's the family's dirty little secret and thus is shadow running while his brother is getting all the glory and respect.

I think you have some big missunderstanding on what shapeshifters in SR are, their not metahumans who can take an animal form, they are animals who can shapeshift into metahumans.

[iategod]

I think you have some big missunderstanding on what shapeshifters in SR are, their not metahumans who can take an animal form, they are animals who can shapeshift into metahumans.

Right, who's to say he wasn't an egg from another nest? Or should ihave said a black eagle instead of crow/raven? I don't understand how my proposed idea of a character history is that large of a problem...

[Mäx]

Right, who's to say he wasn't an egg from another nest? Or should ihave said a black eagle instead of crow/raven? I don't understand how my proposed idea of a character history is that large of a problem...

Unlike metahumans brothers, animal brothers cant really be from different species.

[sn0mm1s]

IF the FAQ is supposed to change rules (rather than clarifying them), then maybe... but that was a FAQ to a rule that existed in 4e, so there's a good chance it just got left in place when the 4e20a stuff got added.

That's two big "if"s: whether the FAQ is supposed to change rules, and whether that particular FAQ item has anything to do with "the latest".

(My personal advice is to ignore the FAQ until they get the 4e/4a stuff sorted out. Blatant contradiction of current rules isn't a FAQ answer, it's a rules change -- update, errata, whatever you want to call it. It's a change, not a clarification.)

- - -

Anyway. Going by either set of rules, I don't see any way for you to carry a gun.

Actually, the FAQ is pretty clear about the topic as is the rulebook. The FAQ was written well after 4e20a was published which is why I said *if* the faq is being used. You can argue semantics of FAQ vs. errata all you want but it doesn't change the fact that the latest info released regarding the issue is in the FAQ.

[Nifft]

Ya, I'm asking my gm bout the guns and all but in any case I think I'm going to go with the previous suggestion and do spell casting for damage. As for the magic, we have had the question come up a few times in our sessions and the gm rules that we roll using the amount of magic we have in the stat, not what we used split, so that's the 4e 20th Anniversary rules..... I'll have to change the build a bit.

Cool, sounds like you'll be stealthier and more effective (silent spellcasting vs. gunshots).

Regarding the magic ruling, IMHO it is 4e 20a rules to use the full magic stat for almost everything (not your casting dicepool), so your GM is doing that bit right.

[Mäx]

Actually, the FAQ is pretty clear about the topic as is the rulebook. The FAQ was written well after 4e20a was published which is why I said *if* the faq is being used. You can argue semantics of FAQ vs. errata all you want but it doesn't change the fact that the latest info released regarding the issue is in the FAQ.

That part of the FAQ isn't new and can savely be ignored as its directly contradicts the actual rules in the latest version of the rulebook.

[Makki]

Unlike metahumans brothers, animal brothers cant really be from different species.

well some species like the cuckoo lay their eggs in foreign nests. so the young cuckoo will essentially grow up with some eagle brothers and sisters...

[Lansdren]

I would say be aware that for a while your going to stick out like a sore thumb on the astral. If your going Karmagen then I would suggest a minimum of one initiation for masking. Also be aware of the limitations of regeneration. Called shots to the head or spine are not regeneratable and magic damage (including drain) is also not regeneratable.

I have a bear shifter in my group who can take alot of damage but he's the one in the drek if a spirt catches him from the astral side of the veil

[iategod]

I would say be aware that for a while your going to stick out like a sore thumb on the astral. If your going Karmagen then I would suggest a minimum of one initiation for masking. Also be aware of the limitations of regeneration. Called shots to the head or spine are not regeneratable and magic damage (including drain) is also not regeneratable.

I have a bear shifter in my group who can take alot of damage but he's the one in the drek if a spirt catches him from the astral side of the veil

Called shots to the head/spine are understandably unregenerable, and some magic damage, sure but how bout self inflicted physical damage? Say, from my over casting?

[Makki]

it's still drain damage. but NPC bloodmages could use the Sacrifice Metamagic, where you cut yourself and use the damage done to compensate drain. you can of course regenerate knife cuts..

[Lansdren]

it's still drain damage. but NPC bloodmages could use the Sacrifice Metamagic, where you cut yourself and use the damage done to compensate drain. you can of course regenerate knife cuts..

I can see some people arguring with that point.


But doesnt matter to me blood mages are worth lots of money to everyone.

[sn0mm1s]

That part of the FAQ isn't new and can savely be ignored as its directly contradicts the actual rules in the latest version of the rulebook.

The FAQ was released just a couple months ago and the portion regarding mystic adepts was new.

[Draco18s]

The FAQ was released just a couple months ago and the portion regarding mystic adepts was new.

Still doesn't make it RAW. There are numerous examples where the FAQ directly contradicts what is in the book, thereby invalidating it as being legitimate. One of them is even an example that uses the same rule to directly contradict an example in the book (that is, the two examples come to a different conclusion just through rule text interpretation).

If the intent is to change the rules for balance it is not an answer to a Frequently Asked Question, but a Rules Change which is the job of Errata.

Frequently asked questions, or FAQs are listed questions and answers, all supposed to be frequently asked in some context, and pertaining to a particular topic.

An erratum or corrigendum (plurals: errata, corrigenda) is a correction of a book. [...] As a general rule, publishers issue an erratum for a production error (i.e. an error introduced during the publishing process) and a corrigendum for an author's error.