[X] My Assistant

[iategod]

it's still drain damage. but NPC bloodmages could use the Sacrifice Metamagic, where you cut yourself and use the damage done to compensate drain. you can of course regenerate knife cuts..

Ok. How bout first aid or heal spell? If i over cast and take damage can i heal the damage with a 99cent first aid kit or a simple heal spell?

[sn0mm1s]

Still doesn't make it RAW. There are numerous examples where the FAQ directly contradicts what is in the book, thereby invalidating it as being legitimate. One of them is even an example that uses the same rule to directly contradict an example in the book (that is, the two examples come to a different conclusion just through rule text interpretation).

If the intent is to change the rules for balance it is not an answer to a Frequently Asked Question, but a Rules Change which is the job of Errata.

This is getting ridiculous. I don't care which one you use. The FAQ is newer. Which is why I have said multiple times *IF* you use the FAQ you have one set of rules, if you ignore the FAQ you have another set of rules. There is no universal law that invalidates the FAQ as legitimate just because it contradicts what was published previously - that is something *you* make up so you can justify ignoring the FAQ. Play however you want, but don't say the FAQ is invalid since it contradicts the rulebook unless you can show me a passage in the rulebook that it always takes precedence over anything not labeled "errata".

[Draco18s]

This is getting ridiculous. I don't care which one you use. The FAQ is newer.

"New" doesn't mean anything when it's not official rules material.

Which is why I have said multiple times *IF* you use the FAQ you have one set of rules, if you ignore the FAQ you have another set of rules. There is no universal law that invalidates the FAQ as legitimate just because it contradicts what was published previously - that is something *you* make up so you can justify ignoring the FAQ. Play however you want, but don't say the FAQ is invalid since it contradicts the rulebook unless you can show me a passage in the rulebook that it always takes precedence over anything not labeled "errata".

When discussing RAW one cannot use the FAQ. Yes, his group may be going by the FAQ, maybe not. But in a rules debate the FAQ is nothing more than the freelancers' personal house rules.

[sn0mm1s]

"New" doesn't mean anything when it's not official rules material.



When discussing RAW one cannot use the FAQ. Yes, his group may be going by the FAQ, maybe not. But in a rules debate the FAQ is nothing more than the freelancers' personal house rules.

This distinction is nothing more than *your* personal house rule that states "The published rulebook always takes precedence over the FAQ." Can you show me where in the rulebook that it says to ignore the FAQ? Can you show me a reference that states the FAQ is nothing more than a freelancers houserule (and is not edited or proofread before being released to the *official* website)?

[Lansdren]

This distinction is nothing more than *your* personal house rule that states "The published rulebook always takes precedence over the FAQ." Can you show me where in the rulebook that it says to ignore the FAQ? Can you show me a reference that states the FAQ is nothing more than a freelancers houserule (and is not edited or proofread before being released to the *official* website)?

To be fair can you produce a rule from any printed book stating the FAQ overides the book?


I'm still torn between listening to the FAQ or not in some ways its been handy in others it has caused more arguments and confusion. I think the FAQ was a good idea but beaten to death by contridictions before it could be tested and cleaned up.

[Mäx]

This distinction is nothing more than *your* personal house rule that states "The published rulebook always takes precedence over the FAQ." Can you show me where in the rulebook that it says to ignore the FAQ? Can you show me a reference that states the FAQ is nothing more than a freelancers houserule (and is not edited or proofread before being released to the *official* website)?

thats not his house rule, books always take precedense over answers of a FAQ as its not FAQ:s place to change rules, thats what errata is for.
And arguing for the FAQ in this particular instance is totally inane, when that part of the corebook was spesifically changed to say what it says in the latest errata.

[iategod]

Before getting a reply from my gm on the weapons questions, i thought i'd just go with touch magic. Be the first naked amerindian "touching" people in that special, memorable kinda of way.

[ Spoiler ]

Stats
Human
shapeshifter
mystic adept
4-body
5-agility
5-reaction
2-str
5-char
5-int
3-logic
5-will
2-edge
6-magic

Skills
perception (visual) 2
unarmed combat (touch spells) 5
counterspelling (combat spells) 4
spellcasting (combat spells) 5
dodge (range) 4
intimidation (interrogation) 3
summoning (beast spirits (not sure on this)) 2
assensing (aura reading) 2

qualities
Restric Gear (was being used for the sustaining focus but i may not need it)
Mentor Spirit
Mystic adept
Focused Concentration 2

Bad luck
SINer
Geas

Splitting magic either 3 adept, 3 magic casting
Adept powers
Traceless walk (1) add this to invisibility for good times
Heightened concentration (1)
counterstrike lvl 2 (1)

Spells
Elemental Aura
increase reflex (i got a lvl 3 sustaining focus for this)
invisibility
resist pain
death touch
physical barrier
decrease attrib (Willpower decrease for intimidation and extra damage with touch spells)
combat sense
heal
??? (Not sure what other spell i should get, shatter, knockout or a range spell)

So i'll be in full defense most of the time, working my way in to touch range. If they even see me to begin with.Once in range, multi cast (decrease wilpower, death touch, death touch) and/or multi hit if more than 1 target in range.
For range defense i'll have combat sense+reaction+dodge (range spec) x2. For melee i'll have combat sense+reaction+unarmed x2. Magic defense is reaction+counterspelling (correct?).
In retaliation i'll have counterstrike which will add the net hits to my counter attach to even hit the target. Like riposte but adding the net hits. Setup if i have first IP, finishing move if need be. Multi strike and watchful guard as well.
Now i'm wondering if i should split my magic 3/3 or 2/3/1(for bioware or cyberware). If i go this route i could very easily become a face.

[sn0mm1s]

To be fair can you produce a rule from any printed book stating the FAQ overides the book?


I'm still torn between listening to the FAQ or not in some ways its been handy in others it has caused more arguments and confusion. I think the FAQ was a good idea but beaten to death by contridictions before it could be tested and cleaned up.

No more than anyone can produce a rule saying the errata overrides the the book.

[sn0mm1s]

thats not his house rule, books always take precedense over answers of a FAQ as its not FAQ:s place to change rules, thats what errata is for.
And arguing for the FAQ in this particular instance is totally inane, when that part of the corebook was spesifically changed to say what it says in the latest errata.

Where is it stated that that is what errata is for and not the FAQ? Also, the errata page does reference the FAQ as a place of "rules questions, and more."

[BobChuck]

Oh for Pete's sakes... can you two drop the "FAQ vs RAW" argument, or move it to it's own thread? there's more posts of you two arguing than there are related to the topic, which is a rather complicated build.

It's not up to either of you which takes precedence, it's up the Player and his GM. so present both sides, agree to disagree, and walk away.

[Nifft]

Spells
Elemental Aura
increase reflex (i got a lvl 3 sustaining focus for this)
invisibility
resist pain
death touch
physical barrier
decrease attrib (Willpower decrease for intimidation and extra damage with touch spells)
combat sense
heal
??? (Not sure what other spell i should get, shatter, knockout or a range spell)

I recommend trimming your list:
- Elemental Aura
- Invisibility
- Heal
- a ranged attack (stunbolt, manabolt, stunball, manaball)
- Fashion

You will profit most from casting & sustaining just one spell at a time. So, out of combat you sustain Invisibility, and in combat you bust out the big guns and sustain Elemental Aura. That way you aren't spending your first four Complex Actions on buffs. Just one buff, and then you get on with the beat-down.

Adept powers
Traceless walk (1) add this to invisibility for good times
Heightened concentration (1)
counterstrike lvl 2 (1)

There's nothing wrong with Heightened Concentration, but I wouldn't buy both it and a Sustaining Focus.

Instead, consider:
- Improved Reflexes 2 (2.5 pp) +2 IPs, +2 Reflex
- Critical Strike 2 (0.5 pp) +2 DV to unarmed attacks

Having the Improved Reflexes "integral" means you get 3 IPs on the first round of combat, rather than needing to cast a spell as your ONLY action during the first round.

Now i'm wondering if i should split my magic 3/3 or 2/3/1(for bioware or cyberware). If i go this route i could very easily become a face.

You can't have cyber or bioware. Well, you can have deltaware in your animal form only, but that's basically the same as "no".

Also:

- TAKE BINDING. I'd recommend Summoning 4 / Binding 4 to start. With your Charisma, you can get a lot of mileage out of Binding.

- Have a ranged attack. Stunbolt, manabolt, whatever. Honestly, it's such a small difference in drain between Death Touch and Manabolt, I'd just take Manabolt. My plan would be to cast Manabolt from a distance until they got into close combat with me, and then cast Elemental Aura (once), sustain it with my Focus, and punch them to death.

- You have Restricted Gear. That ought to allow you a Sustaining Focus 4 rather than 3. If you only take a force 3 Sustaining Focus, you get some Karma back.

- Fashion is an amazing spell for someone who suddenly finds himself in a strange place, completely naked. Ask if Sterilize or Makeover can remove blood from clothing. If either can, then take that spell, as having that + Fashion allow you to duck into an alley and come out looking totally innocent.

[iategod]

Oh for Pete's sakes... can you two drop the "FAQ vs RAW" argument, or move it to it's own thread? there's more posts of you two arguing than there are related to the topic, which is a rather complicated build.

It's not up to either of you which takes precedence, it's up the Player and his GM. so present both sides, agree to disagree, and walk away.

correct... and i already established which rules/faq we are using. Could use more optimization or correction comments, pls, thx

[BobChuck]

correct... and i already established which rules/faq we are using. Could use more optimization or correction comments, pls, thx

I'm actually looking for feedback on this topic as well. Only had the game two weeks, and shapechanging / mystic adepts are particularly complicated.

[Draco18s]

In regards to optimization, I'd personally go for the Improved Reflexes spell than the adept power, as it is a large chunk of PP getting it (you could instead put two magic back towards casting spells and have about the same chance of getting as many IPs). You do need a good sustaining focus, but its worth it IMO.

[rstehwien]

Ok. How bout first aid or heal spell? If i over cast and take damage can i heal the damage with a 99cent first aid kit or a simple heal spell?

SR4a pag 178
Neither Stun nor Physical damage resulting from Drain can be healed by magical means such as sorcery or spirit powers.

From the FAQ

Can Physical Drain be healed by magic? What about Regeneration, adept powers, or mystical healing?

Damage from Drain cannot be healed by magical means including Healing spells or the Empathic Healing or Rapid Healing adept powers. Even the mystical healing optional rule (p.123, Augmentation) cannot add dice to Healing Tests to help with injuries including Drain.

Drain is considered magical damage, and is not subject to the Regeneration power.

The price you pay for spellcasting is drain and nothing but time can make you better.

[Nifft]

In regards to optimization, I'd personally go for the Improved Reflexes spell than the adept power, as it is a large chunk of PP getting it (you could instead put two magic back towards casting spells and have about the same chance of getting as many IPs). You do need a good sustaining focus, but its worth it IMO.

Mmm. The trouble IMHO is that either you're lit up on the Astral (with a Sustaining Focus) or you're a sitting duck for your first combat round (if you don't cast until combat starts). Also, wards & barriers.

He has enough Karma to initiate two or three times, which will give him +2 pp and possibly +Masking or +Adept Centering... assuming he's allowed to Initiate during character creation. If not, well, there's where your first earned Karma can go.

The third way to get more IPs is to summon & bind a Spirit of Man (force 4 to 6) who casts & sustains Improved Reflexes for you. He can technically do this forever for the cost of one service, but if you try this your GM will be morally justified in throwing dice at you.

[Mäx]

You will profit most from casting & sustaining just one spell at a time. So, out of combat you sustain Invisibility, and in combat you bust out the big guns and sustain Elemental Aura. That way you aren't spending your first four Complex Actions on buffs. Just one buff, and then you get on with the beat-down.

ever heard about this wonderful think called multicasting.

The price you pay for spellcasting is drain and nothing but time can make you better.

Not really, firstaid works wonders on kepping the make casting all day long

[Nifft]

ever heard about this wonderful think called multicasting.

With a SIX DIE casting pool? You're misspelling "suicide".

[Mäx]

With a SIX DIE casting pool? You're misspelling "suicide".

how does a casting pool have anythink to do with character killing himself and there are these nifty super secret thinks called foci that i hear add to casting pools after the slitting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Nifft]

how does a casting pool have anythink to do with character killing himself and there are these nifty super secret thinks called foci that i hear add to casting pools after the slitting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Apparently I don't speak Mäxglish.

What do you mean?

[iategod]

ok lets see;

My character will be part of a Doc Wagon. Such that, we normally get a call and bout 4min of travel time to the call, that's when i was planning on casting my sustained spells such as lightning reflexes (with rank 3 sustain focus) combat sense (with the 5 or 6 sustain focus that i got for restricted gear) and either invisibility or aura with adept centering depends if i need stealth or just go all out. According to the core book it says i can have up to my logic in activated foci... is that for all foci or just sustain foci? I'll have a weapon foci as well (hand wraps), does it count as an activated foci?

We reach the scene and i go flying in, locating the client then either neutralize the threat near him/her or just start the healing biz. This is where i was debating on either having shadow/mist or physical barrier. I like the idea of blinding everyone in my area, with my defense and a -6 to visibility i would be pretty safe naked. I'll negate the effect with heightened concentration if i suffer from the effects myself (ask gm, waiting for reply).

As for spirits, i'll have to read up on it. I considered it, but didn't want to focus my character on it. I don't know the politics involved with spirits and a free spirit. I mean we have a free spirit in the team and he seems to be very anti magic, go figure. Dunno if they will be kos to one another or not.

I will have foci, casting, binding, counter spelling, etc etc. Most rank 3, all under 12 availability unless i get the restricted gear (again). I'll also have fetishe.... the benefits of having no need to buy weapons or armor and having a large tribal NAN connection/history.

What i can't get is why first aid would help with over casting yet nothing else can. No heal spell, no magical regen powers, no trauma damper, nothing.... doesn't make much sense to me. A mundane can shoot all day long with no threat. I'm not saying drain is not needed, i agree with the drain idea. But the healing should be allowed after the fact. I mean if i take physical damage from an over cast and i get my shadow run done and go home to rest with a doc there i can't do anything to increase the healing of the damage. Not talking bout lessening it, just healing it.

[Draco18s]

Apparently I don't speak Mäxglish.

What do you mean?

4 spellcasting + 2 magice = 6 dice

Split is 3/3

Force 3 Power Focus

Dice pools of 6/6

Force 3 spellcasting focus

Dice pools of 9/9

Spcialization

11/11

Mentor spirit

13/13

[Mäx]

Apparently I don't speak Mäxglish.

What do you mean?

im asking how does a small cast pool spell suicide to you, i cant see any realtion between the two.
And foci doe wonders for your multicasting pool sizes as does mentor bonuses and spesialisations by the way.

Only one foci per test draco18, but you can get a force 5 spellcasting foci at chargen so thats only one die away from that pool.
With that foci and menor bonus and spec you can split that pool sixht ways and still have 10 dice in all of those pools.

[iategod]

the way i see it,
i win first IP
i'm in melee range
step 1
agility (5)+unarmed (touch spec 7)+weapon foci (2)+2 for touch attack only (core pg 148)=16 to see if i even touch them
lets say i hit with 4 net hits

multi cast (decrease attrib, death touch) all at force 3
step 2
roll spell damage magic (6)+spell casting (5 since decrease attrib is not my spec)+3 power foci=14 against the targets willpower (+counterspell if he/she has it)

step 3
say i roll 4 hits for step2, and the opponent has no counter spell rolling only with a willpower of 3 getting 1 hit. Means he get's -3 to will, thus he's "incapacitated" (core pg 200)

Step 4
roll for death touch damage. Magic (6)+spellcasting (7 with combat spell spec)+3power foci+2 mentor spirit= 18. Enemy has nothing to roll for defense.... so he explodes into a fine red mist ala Rorschach.

DRAIN TESTS
decrease attrib has (f/2)+1 drain, +1 for the second spell cast=resist 2
death touch has (f/2)-2, +1 for the second spell cast=not sure here, resist 1 i would guess



does this make sense..... i'm not 100% sure on the muticasting since it's only 1 target.

[Draco18s]

multi cast (decrease attrib, death touch) all at force 3
step 2
roll spell damage magic (6)+spell casting (5 since decrease attrib is not my spec)+3 power foci=14 against the targets willpower (+counterspell if he/she has it)

This section is slightly off. You're multicasting

Base:
Magic 6 + Spellcasting 5 = 11;

Dec Attrib:
Base 6 (half, round up*) + 3 Power Focus = 9

Death
Base 5 (half, round down*) + 3 Power Focus + 2 Specialization = 10

So two spells, 9 dice and 10 dice, versus Willpower+Counterspelling (per each spell).

*You split the pool and because you have a spec in the death touch domain, you might as well let Decrease Attribute have the extra die.