[X] My Assistant

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

i would say that the matrix rules would become more interesting to more people if one could do something quickly. Like say virtually slapping someone from across the room (without it taking several minutes of setup that is).

the minimum times on matrix extended tests are basically silly.

Why? Do you have an Example that might help to illustrate your point? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Keep the Faith

[Ravennus]

Daisy chaining multiple commlinks so a hacker is forced to defeat several layers of defenses is another good idea.



-np

Hahaha, this exact trick was brought up in Unwired actually. You should read the response, it's great... basically it's a newb trick that doesn't actually work. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[hobgoblin]

Why? Do you have an Example that might help to illustrate your point? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Keep the Faith

hack on the fly is a complex action pr roll in a extended test with the target firewall as treshold.

in that time alone, how much lead can a samurai put into the same target, or how many spells can a mage deliver?

and even after that your limited to rebooting the targets hardware unless he happens to use hot sim VR at the time (highly unlikely).

[KarmaInferno]

Hahaha, this exact trick was brought up in Unwired actually. You should read the response, it's great... basically it's a newb trick that doesn't actually work. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That's talking about a hacker using multiple layers of commlinks while hacking to try and buffer himself against IC. It doesn't work because if you're facing an IC, your icon is there and as such the IC has a direct connection to your brain, no matter how many commlinks you've chained through.

I am referring to using it as a defense AGAINST being hacked, by putting several firewalls between you and the hacker. There's no direct connection in this case, the intruder has to overcome each little closed box before accessing the next.



-karma

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

hack on the fly is a complex action pr roll in a extended test with the target firewall as treshold.

in that time alone, how much lead can a samurai put into the same target, or how many spells can a mage deliver?

and even after that your limited to rebooting the targets hardware unless he happens to use hot sim VR at the time (highly unlikely).

But I really do not see that as being silly, at least in my opinion... it is going to take a hacker longer to perform a hack than it is for the Street Sam (or Mage) to kill an opponent... that is only logical... as for the Complex Action and Target Firewall... 2 Passes will generally get you into a Rating 6 Firewall (by Buying Successes) assuming that you have a Dice Pool of 12 (which is very easy to actually acquire)... Those exceptional Hackers/Technomancers, who have a few more Dice to play with, can expect to do that on average rolls, and can actually get in in a Single Complex Action if they roll well, or have Edge to spend...

Why would you not try to impede their communications? Or their tactical network, or Spoof the COmmunications to your benefit, or any number of other options rather than hacking someone who is likely dead by the time you hack their equipment? There are a ton of things that hte Hacker can do in teh same time frame that the Mage/Sam are killing things... If your Hacker is only trying to hack comlinks and turn off cyber (or whatever) they should really consider broadening their field a bit... Hacking Comlinks is not an action for trhe Hacker during combat... that is what they do before combat ever commences...

Keep the Faith

[Yerameyahu]

The problem there is the same as it always it: security versus usefulness (connectivity). If you want your cool computer to connect out to anything to do its job… oops. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's a good strategy option, but a limited one (like everything).

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

That's talking about a hacker using multiple layers of commlinks while hacking to try and buffer himself against IC. It doesn't work because if you're facing an IC, your icon is there and as such the IC has a direct connection to your brain, no matter how many commlinks you've chained through.

I am referring to using it as a defense AGAINST being hacked, by putting several firewalls between you and the hacker. There's no direct connection in this case, the intruder has to overcome each little closed box before accessing the next.

-karma

Which can be quite brutal if the Multi-Layer PAN is constructed with High-level Security in Mind... It is a rare Hacker/Technomancer that can penetrate all the way to my Cranial Comlink, for that very reason... Multiple Layers, 3 Deep, with judicious use of Security Programs, Agents, IC, and a Decent System Alert Response Configuration... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Keep the Faith

[Yerameyahu]

Unless, of course, you're using it as a commlink. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) In which case there are direct routes in. You can't get out without giving ways in.

[The Grue Master]

Which can be quite brutal if the Multi-Layer PAN is constructed with High-level Security in Mind... It is a rare Hacker/Technomancer that can penetrate all the way to my Cranial Comlink, for that very reason... Multiple Layers, 3 Deep, with judicious use of Security Programs, Agents, IC, and a Decent System Alert Response Configuration... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Keep the Faith

I also love to use cranial commlinks like a router, segregating everything that is important from each other. Keep your guns/cybereyes/personal commlink all connected via a skinlinked commlink who is not wifi-enabled and has a big 'ole anti-hacker mentality. Then, via optical cable, run a second/third/whatever commlink about your person, either active or passive, but without making the direct connection to all your expensive but potentially hackable devices. Not only does it provide many layers of separation, it also grants a little security through obscurity (feh) and helps keep your commlink and your matrix persona segregated. Someone blows up your wireless commlink? Oh well, the guns still go bang. True, it is expensive, but in theory your skinlink commlink doesn't have to be very powerful. I'd probably optimize it for analyze and run an agent with a powerful analyze program, connected to a display/image link. If the system hits active alert, you pull the plug (on the wireless connection).

[nemafow]

This sounds pretty cool, I hope you are able to get this working and share it with the public. I would love to see it.

[The Grue Master]

In the vein of 'sams/mages kill things faster than you can hack them', I'd like to point out that hackers/TMs can hack things they can't see directly, etc. The sam can shoot any darn fool who steps out into the alley, but I am killing suckers with their household drones while they hide in the basement. Or busting up their tac net. Or firing their underbarrel grenade launchers in narrow corridors. Or posting the nude trid-pics of their secret dwarven mistresses onto public forums. And so forth...

[Saint Sithney]

Spoof is a combat weapon. Exploit is an Infiltration tool. You can spoof over and over again until you get a hit.

Though Spoof rules are kind of dumb. -3 dice and -6 dice depending on the access level needed to execute the command? You're spoofing another user's matrix ID. If they don't have access to do something, then it should't happen, and if they do have access, then the command should be followed without any added difficulty.
Dumb dumb dumb.


BTW, another good security tip is to have a dedicated Agent just to run Redirect Trace actions 4evrs. Track attempts then become an uphill battle and it keeps your ID safer, longer.

PS I had tried to start a Matrix VR environments superthread before. I'll link to that here.

[kzt]

I guess I have two questions for the community: Is there any way to realistically secure a basic commlink in this system, and is there anyone who isn't disappointed in the simplification of VR?

Depends on what you mena by "secure a basic comlink". You can essentially execute drop-out via subscription lists. Frank noted other approaches:

"then people will simply make their systems unhackable by any of a number of architectural means (you can enjoy yourself in Unwired by slaving your sat uplink to your comlink, connecting them with a cable, turning the wireless off on the comlink master and then laughing like a lunatic according to page 55 - all wireless attempts at exploit have to go through the comlink which they automatically fail at, and any spoof attempts also automatically fail because there's no wireless communication to listen to so you can't have perceived the Access ID of the Master and the cheese stands alone)."

[Yerameyahu]

Nothing so special about that. Now you're stuck with a sat-only connection. Again, you've made a tradeoff. Possibly it's a good tradeoff for your needs, possibly it's a bad one. Why would you even need to slave the uplink, though?

[Malachi]

"then people will simply make their systems unhackable by any of a number of architectural means (you can enjoy yourself in Unwired by slaving your sat uplink to your comlink, connecting them with a cable, turning the wireless off on the comlink master and then laughing like a lunatic according to page 55 - all wireless attempts at exploit have to go through the comlink which they automatically fail at, and any spoof attempts also automatically fail because there's no wireless communication to listen to so you can't have perceived the Access ID of the Master and the cheese stands alone)."

I never agreed with Frank's assessment of this. All his slaved Satlink system would get you is preventing people from hacking into you by spotting your physical location and accessing you directly. If you are actually doing something with that Commlink connected to a Satlink on the Matrix, then your persona from that commlink is out on the Matrix "somewhere" doing "something." In that case, your Persona can be perceived and traced back to its source, at which time a counter-hack can be initiated. The rules in Unwired say that any attempt to access a slaved device automatically redirect to the master, therefore attempting to hack the Satlink just means a hack against the master commlink.

Bottom line: if you have opened your commlink up to any sort of two-way communication with the Matrix-at-large then you are hackable. End of story.

Side note: if you would also like a detailed explanation of why Frank's "you can experience the Matrix without a commlink" system doesn't work you can read it here.

[Adarael]

Yeah, that's the way it should be working. Frank's interpretation of some of the rules are a little wacky, to say the least.

[hobgoblin]

my understanding is that frank basically took the mage as the zero point, and observed how far "behind" the hacker was, then built rules to life the hacker to the level of the mage. Or at least, that seems to have been his MO when doing other kinds of rules work around the net.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Unless, of course, you're using it as a commlink. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) In which case there are direct routes in. You can't get out without giving ways in.

Sure you can... Just secure the access paths and you go a long way to keeping it clean... You may not be 100% secure, but you can sure slow someone down a lot if you really try...

Keep the Faith

[Yerameyahu]

Sorry, no idea what that means. All ways out are ways in, that's the law. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[The Grue Master]

Sorry, no idea what that means. All ways out are ways in, that's the law. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

He's saying that out is a two step operation, so that in becomes a two step operation as well. This is like having two locked doors between your house and the street. However, every time you go outside to do something, you leave the two doors behind you. You are then effectively out in the open.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Sorry, no idea what that means. All ways out are ways in, that's the law. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Some Laws are just suggestions... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Basically, I can use a system with full access and full communications out... any one, other than me, will have to defeat the many levels of security to access my pathways back in... sure, they may get in eventually, but then again, they may also take enough lethal feedback to kill them before they ever get close (After all, they only need tro miss one high Rated Data Bomb to be toast)... it really is not that hard to do... either way, you will have slowed them down; hopefully enough to complete what you were doing, and disappear from the matrix...

Keep the Faith

[Yerameyahu]

Right, so it's a way in. That's what I said. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Right, so it's a way in. That's what I said. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Sure... but a very risky way in... which was whay I implied (poorly apparently)... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Keep the Faith

[Synner667]

Personally, a proper Decker in a fully wireless world is likely to switch it all off and only use cables...

[KarmaInferno]

Right, so it's a way in. That's what I said. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The point is not to stop the hack. This is impossible, as you said, if there's a way out, there's a way in.

The point is to make the hack take so much time and be so difficult & dangerous that by the time the hacker has breached your fifth level of defenses he has just enough time to say, "oh crap" as a bullet enters his brain.

It's like securing a house. You can't stop someone who is determined to get in. You can only slow them down enough for other factors to com into play.



-karma