TM Riggers, Just how effective would one focused on drones/vehicles be? Options

[MortVent]

I got to thinking with the hardships in making a hacker style TM at creation, how hard would it be to make one that was a rigger style individual instead?

Some basic computer/cracking skills still.. but more focused on drones and vehicles (which means less need for most complex forms; just scan, stealth, eccm, encrypt, and of course command being really needed as a rigger)

I can see the drone rigger type or even the smuggler

[LurkerOutThere]

I've messed with it a couple times but I've never found a build i'm particularly happy with. The biggest problem is to be a really good rigger you need a control rig, it's not an absolute must have but it is a considerable benefit, that and being a TM eats points, points that a rigger would likely want to put into skills and resources. On the upside machine sprites are an amazing tool in a technomancers arsenal that just can't be duplicated elsewhere, autosofts on demand, the diagnostic power, what's not to like? On the other hand compiling and registering them is going to eat more build points.

Also what harships in making a hacker TM? They only do one thing, but they do that one thing pretty amazing.

[CanRay]

"I wish many guns. Floating around me. Controlled by murder thoughts."

That's how Technomancer Riggers are.

[Jhaiisiin]

Dronomancers tend to be a common focus for Technomancers, so it's definitely doable.

[MortVent]

I've messed with it a couple times but I've never found a build i'm particularly happy with. The biggest problem is to be a really good rigger you need a control rig, it's not an absolute must have but it is a considerable benefit, that and being a TM eats points, points that a rigger would likely want to put into skills and resources. On the upside machine sprites are an amazing tool in a technomancers arsenal that just can't be duplicated elsewhere, autosofts on demand, the diagnostic power, what's not to like? On the other hand compiling and registering them is going to eat more build points.

Also what harships in making a hacker TM? They only do one thing, but they do that one thing pretty amazing.

The hardship is in making one that isn't the type that has to stay home on a run, most are focused so hard they can't do anything else.

Or compared to a hacker at creation with similar skills is weak since the BP costs eat up in complex forms, tasking group, resonance.. vs a hacker that can start with a psudo-god commlink and most of the ware to be a god with higher skill ranks

[DireRadiant]

They are nigh unto gods.

[Golgoth]

I don't know. I generally take my extremely focused TM on a run. He's usually the guy carrying all the gear that other people forgot. Like the Flashbangs, or the medkit. Which reminds me. Buy a few points in First Aid (1-2, whatever). Use your Machine Sprite to run Diagnostics on the medkit... Suddenly you're even more useful on a run.

[Stahlseele]

"I wish many guns. Floating around me. Controlled by murder thoughts."

That's how Technomancer Riggers are.

I have that image.
Wait a second.
Edit:
ah, here we go:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2607/404011...eb11043e1_o.jpg

[CanRay]

I'm thinking of writing a Heavy Metal song named "Guns Controlled By Murder Thoughts"...

[Stahlseele]

Not Heavy Metal.
But Hard Rock.

[CanRay]

DEATH METAL! *Punch to the face*

Sorry, couldn't help but do the Metapocalypse reference.

[Belvidere]

Building any kind of technomancer for the first time is a leap of faith. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) And building a dronomancer is just as difficult as a hack technomancer. Just now you get to have the fun of decking out your drones!

[LurkerOutThere]

Mordivan your assumptions are not correct. A starting technomancer can eat alive a starting Hacker and it's a gap that only widens.

[MortVent]

Mordivan your assumptions are not correct. A starting technomancer can eat alive a starting Hacker and it's a gap that only widens.

Take a look at the archetypes, a starting TM is below skilled compared to a Hacker. They burn through karma to get to the hacker's skill level and for complex forms long after the hacker reaches max skills and buys a maxed commlink in the matrix.

and the hacker has better real world skills and attributes to boot (meaning a TM in the flesh is just meat vs useful early on)

[Ryu]

Take a look at the archetypes, a starting TM is below skilled compared to a Hacker. They burn through karma to get to the hacker's skill level and for complex forms long after the hacker reaches max skills and buys a maxed commlink in the matrix.

and the hacker has better real world skills and attributes to boot (meaning a TM in the flesh is just meat vs useful early on)

TMs are build-your-own. Optimal builds vary greatly between the BP and karma system, but starting TMs can surpass all starting hackers in matrix abilities if they want in either system.

[Cain]

TMs are build-your-own. Optimal builds vary greatly between the BP and karma system, but starting TMs can surpass all starting hackers in matrix abilities if they want in either system.

I wouldn't go that far. A starting otaku can match or even occasionally exceed a focused starting decker in one area, but can't cover all matrix abilities equally. For example, by abusing Threading, you can have an otaku with a huge Stealth rating, exceeding even the stealthiest decker. But he pays for that by not being able to do much of anything else.

[Ryu]

What about this outline?

200 BP: Ork, body 5 agility 2 reaction 2 strength 3 Charisma 4 Intuition 5 Logic 3 Willpower 3 Edge 1 Resonance 5

20 BP: TM, Paragon, Analytical Mind, Perceptive 2, More than Metahuman, SINner, Media Junkie I

150 BP Electronics 4, Cracking 1, Compiling (Machine sprites +2) 2, Registering (Machine sprites +2) 3, Perception 4, Pilot Aircraft 5, Dodge (Ranged+2) 5, Gunnery (Balistics+2) 3, Etiquette 1

30 BP CF: Stealth 5, Analyse 5, Command 5, Exploit 5, Spoof 5, Edit 5

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

What about this outline?

200 BP: Ork, body 5 agility 2 reaction 2 strength 3 Charisma 4 Intuition 5 Logic 3 Willpower 3 Edge 1 Resonance 5

20 BP: TM, Paragon, Analytical Mind, Perceptive 2, More than Metahuman, SINner, Media Junkie I

150 BP Electronics 4, Cracking 1, Compiling (Machine sprites +2) 2, Registering (Machine sprites +2) 3, Perception 4, Pilot Aircraft 5, Dodge (Ranged+2) 5, Gunnery (Balistics+2) 3, Etiquette 1

30 BP CF: Stealth 5, Analyse 5, Command 5, Exploit 5, Spoof 5, Edit 5

Looks Good... What about it?

And for the record... TM's can be exceptionally cool, and even very powerrful at character creation... but a Hacker is generally better all around for the first 100 Karma or so... once that has been reached, the TM takes off and never looks back...

[Ryu]

It was my suggestion for a rigger-style TM outline. Gear and Contacts would be missing, paid for either by negative qualities or taking away something else.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It was my suggestion for a rigger-style TM outline. Gear and Contacts would be missing, paid for either by negative qualities or taking away something else.

Oh, Right... got it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Belvidere]

If you use 20 dice pool cap then they both have their limits. And How they get there is really just two different paths. Technomancers get there by karma and hackers get there via nuyen+a little karma

Let's use a common matrix action, Hack on the Fly....

Hacker
Hacking: 7 (With aptitude)
Exploit Spec: 2
Exploit Program: 6
Codeslinger: 2
Optimized Commlink: 1
And an Agent to help with the Teamwork test: 2
Total: 20 (Yes you can get higher, but if you use cap.. you're done.)

Technomancer
Hacking: 7 (With aptitude)
Exploit Spec: 2
Exploit Complex Form: 5 (Because face it... a 6 resonance at start is stupid expensive)
Thread your Exploit: 5 (If you do well)
Registered Sprite to lend a rating, or codeslinger: 1
Total: 20 (You get plenty higher here as well.. but theres your limit.)

All in all the two are similar in a multitude of ways and although they go about things a little differently, they accomplish the same things relatively easily. Your hacker is going to leaving you scraping the barrel for nuyen and resources, especially if you use degradation rules. And a technomancer will eat up all of your karma as fast as a Lone Star squad in a doughnut shop.

[Yerameyahu]

Actually, the hacker gear's basically cheap. Everyone should hack.

[Belvidere]

Actually, the hacker gear's basically cheap. Everyone should hack.

All depends on your power level of your game really. If you play a high scale game where you're making 10k a run, sure. But if you're playing a syndicate/street level game and want matrix overwatch. That 2-3k job isn't going to cover lifestyle, agents, hackers to help upkeep degradation, and new toys. So a technomancer sounds pretty nice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) And hell if you play Missions, have fun with your 2k jobs if you don't fence your enemy's gear.

[Yerameyahu]

Yuck. I wouldn't take a 2k run. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Belvidere]

Yuck. I wouldn't take a 2k run. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Welcome to Shadowrun Missions. From the Denver ones I've read through they pay out squat. Though I haven't looked through The Rotten Apple's yet. Hopefully NYC pays better than Denver (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)