Magic for the mundane, Detect spells and other spells Options

[Shinobi Killfist]

Well, if the guarded facility itself is a source of fresh meat (black clinic, for example) there is no problem with feeding ghouls.

Why does it always have to be about race? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Why does it always have to be about race? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Heheheh... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Mordinvan]

Because the ghoul would infect all other personnel, and has to eat human flesh! It sounds like a pretty dumb idea.

If the ghoul is second gen, then its 'infertile' as far as its capacity to infect goes. That would be easy to determine with a fairly simple medical test. As far as feeding them goes, the corp if it has any sort of medical facilities will have access to metahuman surgical scraps, or worst case senario, medical grade clones. Really its not as bad an idea as you think. Plus when you consider the social pressures places on ghouls, you'll likely get away without having to pay them too much, which is a problem they would have with virtually every other sapient entity with astral sight.

[Mordinvan]

The question though is, are there so many more 2nd generation Ghouls than there are people with Astral Perception?

If they are ork ghouls you can always breed more of them, and its not so much about rarity, as 'cost'. A ghoul is a rather persecuted member of society meaning grossly depressed wages compared to most other awakened.

Do the Corps actually need that many watchers that this abundance is worth the extra cost for the special diet?

Take the 'cost' out of the ghouls salary if you have to, but really, they're eating the medical waste the corp is generating from is surgical wards, I don't see there being a 'cost' to their diet.

Can the PR-department justify the employment of such dangerous elements to the public?

Given all the bleeding heart ghoul lovers, ya. Pretty easily.

Can you actually prove if a ghoul is 2nd generation?

A simple antibody test would determine if they had the virus in their body fluids. You could not prove they were second gen, but you could prove whether or not they were infectious.

To me this is still too much hassle for too little gain.

I think you are over complicating the 'hassle' and not looking for the simple solutions.

[Hagga]

By RAW even if the ghoul only touches another team member that team member has to resist infection, at which he won't succeed unless he burns (group) edge.

I beg to differ:

It does not say only one dose at a time per workshop. The number of workshops has no impact on the number of doses.

No. If you want to play with RAW, it says one at a time. It doesn't specify wether it is completely, one, anywhere, ever at a time in circulation, period or wether just one per circulation.

[Cabral]

OK, I forgot about that loophole. The question though is, are there so many more 2nd generation Ghouls than there are people with Astral Perception? Do the Corps actually need that many watchers that this abundance is worth the extra cost for the special diet? Can the PR-department justify the employment of such dangerous elements to the public? Can you actually prove if a ghoul is 2nd generation?

To me this is still too much hassle for too little gain.

I seem to recall something stating that ghouls need to eat a small amount (5lbs?) a week of flesh, but can't seem to find a reference in 4th edition to back that up. Anyone know of where that came from?

As for PR? That's easy. The facility is attempting to create an artificial substitute for a Ghoul's dietary requirement to meet the challenge put forth by the late President Dunkelzahn. To further assist our volunteer subjects in assimilating into society, we have given them jobs at our research facility. The lack of a breakthrough in the metabolic front has been offset by tremendous progress our subjects have been making on the social front. Click here for the full story.

[Cabral]

Eww. Double post.

[Kumo]

If the facility is a top-secret black project, corps don't have to worry about PR - security is more important (the "evil" project alone is enough to put them into deep shit). So all they need to do is to cut a deal with tribe of ghouls, build a secret and secure lab in a middle of ghouls' territory, put a personnel inside, and pretend that "nobody's here! Only us... ghouls!"
Piece of cake.

[Lansdren]

I can actually see a special facility guarded by a ghoul team itself. Sod beware of the dogs, beware of the guards who are paid sod all but allowed to eat you.

[Kumo]

"DO NOT ENTER.
The guards are BAD and the owner is even WORSE."

[Stormdrake]

Anchoring was the thing I was looking for. Little different in 4th from 3rd but still viable. A corp mage whips up a few anchoring foci for the local mundane security forces. Example, the anchoring foci has an active detect magic spell running as a trigger and a Mana barrier spell as the reactive part. Yes I know it costs karma but if you are working with the alternate rule of "cash for karma" then corporate security would be the group to have these toys. I could also see high end corporate executives having a few handed to them to make extractions a real pain in the butt.

[Johnny B. Good]

Can anybody tell me if detect magic works for detecting possessing spirits?

[Dakka Dakka]

I guess it's a judgment call. It all depends on whether you still consider the composite entity of spirit+vessel a spirit or an awakened critter. the former is detectable the latter isn't.

[Stormdrake]

Don't see why it would not. If the spirit is masking then you could have a problem.

[czarcasm]

Anchoring was the thing I was looking for. Little different in 4th from 3rd but still viable. A corp mage whips up a few anchoring foci for the local mundane security forces. Example, the anchoring foci has an active detect magic spell running as a trigger and a Mana barrier spell as the reactive part. Yes I know it costs karma but if you are working with the alternate rule of "cash for karma" then corporate security would be the group to have these toys. I could also see high end corporate executives having a few handed to them to make extractions a real pain in the butt.

In fact, if I recall correctly, a number of the mundane NPCs in Ghost Cartels have anchored spells on various things. Didn't one of them have Shattershield anchored to a bag of mojo stuff?

[Johnny B. Good]

Has any houseruling been done on costs of quickened spells? Anybody have any idea how much they would cost?

[Dakka Dakka]

Not that I know of. Why would that be necessary?

[Johnny B. Good]

Not that I know of. Why would that be necessary?

In the event that a mundane chatacter would want to buy a quickened spell from an awakened character. I could see trid starlets doing things like buying quickened healthy glow. Or shadowrunners buying all sorts of useful quickened spells.

[Traul]

I could see trid starlets doing things like buying quickened healthy glow.

It does not work: Healthy glow is not a sustained spell. Your starlet will just have to visit her magical beauty salon on a regular basis.

[Doc Chase]

It does not work: Healthy glow is not a sustained spell. Your starlet will just have to visit her magical beauty salon on a regular basis.

So that's where Horizon's magical assets all went.

[Johnny B. Good]

It does not work: Healthy glow is not a sustained spell. Your starlet will just have to visit her magical beauty salon on a regular basis.

I'm sure there's a sustained version out there somewhere.

[Traul]

Physical Mask? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Johnny B. Good]

Physical Mask? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Just use the spell creation rules to make it sustained instead of instant. Sure you take a -2 while sustaining it, but that's what quickenening is for eh?

[Stormdrake]

I am using the optional rule of "cash for Karma" in conjunction with anchoring with pretty good results

[Johnny B. Good]

I am using the optional rule of "cash for Karma" in conjunction with anchoring with pretty good results

I'll definitely talk to my GM about that one.

Can anybody think of how mindlinking two creatures that aren't yourself would work? Maybe a variant of quickened spells or possibly a custom enchantment?