[X] My Assistant

[TommyTwoToes]

He's already maxed out critical strike, so moving points into that isn't an option.


What else is a 500lb cyclops living in the sewer going to do besides teach himself martial arts? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Ahh, he has crit strike listed twice, I just say the .5 crit strike expendature.

First, you can only max one stat at chargen, and you have magic and agility both maxed.

Thought this was only 1 skill can be at 6 at character gen, must have been doing it wrong all these years.....AFB for now, will check when I get home. Never have enough points to max more than one stat anyhow (of course I won't run with 3-4 stats at a 1 either).

[Laodicea]

People seem to have differing opinions on whether magic counts toward the "one attribute of 6 or two attributes of 5" rule. Either way, that 6th point is prohibitively expensive and I would advise dropping it.

[sabs]

I always consider Magic and Edge to be "special" and to not count towards the max attribute rule.

[Reg06]

I love how granny can beat him in initiatute, pull out her taser, make a called shot at his nads, and he has to spend edge to even have a chance to get out of the way.

Aleksei isn't a combat specialist- he's a demolitions specialist.

"People seem to have differing opinions on whether magic counts toward the "one attribute of 6 or two attributes of 5" rule. Either way, that 6th point is prohibitively expensive and I would advise dropping it."

I read that because the cap is in the mental and physical attributes section, magic is not capped if the other stats are maxed. But I've been wrong. Either way, I need the full 6 points. The only optional adept power is attribute boost, and that's only .25 PP.

[Stingray]

Mentor is back in the Motherland, but I do need a contact.

As for the debated things (stacking DV and critical strike with hardliner gloves (which is really needed in order to actually hit things in unarmed combat)), I'm fairly certain my DM is fine with it.

Quick question about armor;
FFBA Suit is 6/2, and Armored Jacket is 8/6, giving me a 14/8, right? Then a full PPP system and a helmet bumps that to 17/16, and gel packs makes that 18/17?

FFBA (Full) 6/2
Armored Jacket 8/6
Vitals Protection 1/1
Forearm Guards 0/1
Shin Guards 0/1
Leg& arms casings 1/1
Helmet 1/2
Gel packs 1/1
Troll natural (w/Cyplop-metavariant ?,not w/books) 1/1

[Fauxknight]

Ahh, he has crit strike listed twice, I just say the .5 crit strike expendature.

I'm pretty sure thats actually supposed to be killing hands, since its a prereq for elemental strike.

[Reg06]

It is supposed to be Killing Hands, and it's been fixed.

[iategod]

Don't use gremlins, trust me. You wouldn't be able to turn on a commlink without having to roll. Goodbye group intel. Get Badluck instead.

Don't get me wrong, edge is really nice, but i don't see it helping you when you are knocked unconscious by a stray mana bolt. drop it a little and get your other stats as far from 1 as possible. Trust me, you'll be saving yourself a reroll. No stat should ever be at a 1, there's no good reason for it. Ya want to have a character who would make a retarded, lobotomized, cross eyed monkey look like Stephen Hawking. Every time your character goes to the bathroom your team mates will be sticking his nose in it saying "bad boy." No need to handcuff this guy, just tie his shoe laces together. That'll keep him puzzled on how to move for a few hours.

[TommyTwoToes]

I read that because the cap is in the mental and physical attributes section, magic is not capped if the other stats are maxed. But I've been wrong. Either way, I need the full 6 points. The only optional adept power is attribute boost, and that's only .25 PP.

I am almost certain that this rule is for skills and not for attributes.

[Fauxknight]

No stat should ever be at a 1, there's no good reason for it.

There is a good reason though, its the basic min/max tactic when using the built point method. He can buy those all up to 2s or 3s after a couple of sessions for almost no karma.

[iategod]

There is a good reason though, its the basic min/max tactic when using the built point method. He can buy those all up to 2s or 3s after a couple of sessions for almost no karma.

well yea, but i doubt he'll make it through a session. With a reaction of 1 he'll go after the paranormal chocolate squirrelador in combat turns. When i meant no good reason for a stat of 1, i hold fast to it cause min/maxing tactics is not a good reason, it's cannon fodder for any gm. Any melee specialist with one IP and no first aid is gonna be the first down.

[Karoline]

Aleksei isn't a combat specialist- he's a demolitions specialist.

"People seem to have differing opinions on whether magic counts toward the "one attribute of 6 or two attributes of 5" rule. Either way, that 6th point is prohibitively expensive and I would advise dropping it."

I read that because the cap is in the mental and physical attributes section, magic is not capped if the other stats are maxed. But I've been wrong. Either way, I need the full 6 points. The only optional adept power is attribute boost, and that's only .25 PP.

That is for skills, not attributes.

The rule for attributes states quite plainly

Also, characters cannot have more than one attribute
at their natural maximum

Edit, oops, quoted the wrong person. You really need to use the quote tags, makes it so much easier tell what you are and aren't saying.

[sabs]

well yea, but i doubt he'll make it through a session. With a reaction of 1 he'll go after the paranormal chocolate squirrelador in combat turns. When i meant no good reason for a stat of 1, i hold fast to it cause min/maxing tactics is not a good reason, it's cannon fodder for any gm. Any melee specialist with one IP and no first aid is gonna be the first down.

LMG+wide full auto for the win.

Or a sniper rifle shot.
A mage with some mana bolts.

But really the whole character is completely silly.
It's not a character, it's an NPC mcguffin you send a shadowrun team to recover.

[Karoline]

LMG+wide full auto for the win.

Or a sniper rifle shot.
A mage with some mana bolts.

But really the whole character is completely silly.
It's not a character, it's an NPC mcguffin you send a shadowrun team to recover.

Of course each of those examples would also take out nearly any character. Very few are going to be able to handle a -9 to their dodge DP, this character is actually more likely than most to survive the sniper shot because he at least has a high body. And he really isn't any worse off against a mana bolt than anyone else either.

[Traul]

Of course, when targeting that huge immobile mass, you go for the narrow burst, not the wide one.

[Karoline]

Of course, when targeting that huge immobile mass, you go for the narrow burst, not the wide one.

Very true.

[Reg06]

Aleksei doesn't need CHA or LOG, since those skills won't ever be good enough to matter. INT and REA would be nice for the init, but the BP just aren't there. I don't really need higher magic, so INT and REA can be brought up very quickly with Karma. And getting hit isn't a problem, since the soak pool is pretty large (18/17 armor and 9 body) and he has plenty of damage boxes.
Actually, INT and REA are both now at 2 because I dropped AGI to 4.
As for Stunbolts, he does fine. More Stun boxes than most character, a good WILL score, and the ability to take Counterspelling means he's less suscpetible to magic than most.
I don't really expect him to have to survive combats. With a gunbunny and a good mage in the party I might have to roll dice every once in a while.

Gremlins is fine. Using a commlink for everyday tasks doesn't take any tests so I'm not worried about critical clitches.

I would love to get all stats to at least 2 (I really do hate 1's and gross min-maxing like this), and put some points into Outdoors and Perception, and even Dodge, but there just aren't enough BP. After a couple runs I'll have the Karma to learn other things, but he needs to start out great at this trick in order to make it worthwhile.

[iategod]

Of course each of those examples would also take out nearly any character. Very few are going to be able to handle a -9 to their dodge DP, this character is actually more likely than most to survive the sniper shot because he at least has a high body. And he really isn't any worse off against a mana bolt than anyone else either.

True, but even with edge he'd be rolling nearly nothing against a mana bolt. I'm sure any one of the other character could possibly roll with edge and survive, hardly i'm sure, but survive none the less.

Hey i'm all for the tank type builds, i've had my few posts bout it here on the dump. That's why i'm going with a bear shape shifter. But my lowest stat is 3 on any character i've made. Mainly thanks for the people on these forums showing me the light.

OP, there are more ways than one to skin a troll size cat. At 18p you are hitting as hard as a tank. Your foes are turning into red mists upon being touched by you. Hell at 12p you'd be doing well. Perhaps you might want to lower the damage a bit and focus on survival, whether it be dodging, stealth, or distration (thermal smoke nade). Leave some room to grow, otherwise when between jobs your character will be reading dr seuss books and getting confused. You know why romeo's zombies weren't as scary as 28 days later zombies? Cause they weren't smart enough to turn the door handles........

[Karoline]

and the ability to take Counterspelling means he's less suscpetible to magic than most.

Adepts can't take counterspelling. They aren't cool enough.

True, but even with edge he'd be rolling nearly nothing against a mana bolt. I'm sure any one of the other character could possibly roll with edge and survive, hardly i'm sure, but survive none the less.

He does have a really good willpower though (for some reason)

Hey i'm all for the tank type builds, i've had my few posts bout it here on the dump. That's why i'm going with a bear shape shifter. But my lowest stat is 3 on any character i've made. Mainly thanks for the people on these forums showing me the light.

I've had many characters that have gotten by with 2s in stats, I've even had a handful of 1s, but those are fairly rare, and generally very intentional for the character as opposed to min/maxing.

OP, there are more ways than one to skin a troll size cat. At 18p you are hitting as hard as a tank. Your foes are turning into red mists upon being touched by you. Hell at 12p you'd be doing well. Perhaps you might want to lower the damage a bit and focus on survival, whether it be dodging, stealth, or distration (thermal smoke nade). Leave some room to grow, otherwise when between jobs your character will be reading dr seuss books and getting confused. You know why romeo's zombies weren't as scary as 28 days later zombies? Cause they weren't smart enough to turn the door handles........

Agreed, the damage is somewhat more than you need to one shot someone with armor of less than about 18ish. Though on the other hand, most of your ways to increase damage didn't cost a ton. Also, those Dr Seuss books are confusing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Reg06]

True, but even with edge he'd be rolling nearly nothing against a mana bolt. I'm sure any one of the other character could possibly roll with edge and survive, hardly i'm sure, but survive none the less.

Hey i'm all for the tank type builds, i've had my few posts bout it here on the dump. That's why i'm going with a bear shape shifter. But my lowest stat is 3 on any character i've made. Mainly thanks for the people on these forums showing me the light.

OP, there are more ways than one to skin a troll size cat. At 18p you are hitting as hard as a tank. Your foes are turning into red mists upon being touched by you. Hell at 12p you'd be doing well. Perhaps you might want to lower the damage a bit and focus on survival, whether it be dodging, stealth, or distration (thermal smoke nade). Leave some room to grow, otherwise when between jobs your character will be reading dr seuss books and getting confused. You know why romeo's zombies weren't as scary as 28 days later zombies? Cause they weren't smart enough to turn the door handles........

Nothing against a manabolt? What do anyother non-Magicians have? Aleksei has great body (I think I could get away with 7 body in order to increase some skills or stats) and great will, and can learn put points into counterspelling. Forgive me if I'm wrong, as I've never messed around with actual magic.
And Aleksei isn't supposed to be a tank, though that is secondary.
As for room to grow, this character has plenty. If I put points into the mental stats and skills it will actually be harder to grow (because the karma will cost more). I'm not 100% happy that it is such an unbalanced character, but I had to make sacrifices in order for it to run through walls.

[iategod]

Nothing against a manabolt? What do anyother non-Magicians have? Aleksei has great body (I think I could get away with 7 body in order to increase some skills or stats) and great will, and can learn put points into counterspelling. Forgive me if I'm wrong, as I've never messed around with actual magic.
And Aleksei isn't supposed to be a tank, though that is secondary.
As for room to grow, this character has plenty. If I put points into the mental stats and skills it will actually be harder to grow (because the karma will cost more). I'm not 100% happy that it is such an unbalanced character, but I had to make sacrifices in order for it to run through walls.

Fair enough

Let's optimize a bit. Starting at the metatype varient... You got one eye making all physical tests a -1. +1 str and +1 reach. Any other metatype would be optimistically better. However i'm guessing you are going cyclopes for the fun of it. Also be aware that you have no vision enhancements, so i dunno how you can see in the sewers, but that aside.... ok

Get rid of penetrating strike. Ya got elemental strike which i'm guessing you'll use all the time. You can't use that and penetrating strike at the same time so it's a waste of points. Also smashing blow is redundant. With it, you'll take your base damage (str/2) and double it. That's 10p on barriers......... You'll doing 18p without it. With those points you can get atleast 1 more IP with lightning reflexes.

Pick up riposte or better yet counterstrike 1 if you can. You'll love it, trust me. With the str you have you could be using people as weapons (if you get to them fast enough). Look into power throw, missile mastery and attacks to subdue. Pickup an enemy and use him as a skipping stone while closing the range to the others.

[Reg06]

Cyclops for the +1 STR. And I think cyclops look better as ankylosaurs than trolls do. Thermal Sensitivity is thermal vision (which I get from being a changeling).
Penetrating Strike vs Elemental Strike. I'm undecided. Penetrating Strike is useful for when I go up against barriers (because halving the impact armor isn't super useful if they don't have impact armor). I'll talk to my DM to see if Smashing Blow is useful (if it doubles the bonuses to DV from critical strike and the like it is actually good... if not it is a terrific waste of points).
I have Riposte on a samurai physad, and I can't get enough of it. However, Aleksei will almost never successfully block an attack (since we're looking at 13 dice to unarmed block).

[Karoline]

Thermal Sensitivity is not the same as thermal vision. It's more like a "There is something hot over there." sense.

[Reg06]

Thermal Sensitivity is not the same as thermal vision. It's more like a "There is something hot over there." sense.

Good catch. I will instead, for the same BP cost, take Thermographic Vision.

[iategod]

Cyclops for the +1 STR. And I think cyclops look better as ankylosaurs than trolls do. Thermal Sensitivity is thermal vision (which I get from being a changeling).
Penetrating Strike vs Elemental Strike. I'm undecided. Penetrating Strike is useful for when I go up against barriers (because halving the impact armor isn't super useful if they don't have impact armor). I'll talk to my DM to see if Smashing Blow is useful (if it doubles the bonuses to DV from critical strike and the like it is actually good... if not it is a terrific waste of points).
I have Riposte on a samurai physad, and I can't get enough of it. However, Aleksei will almost never successfully block an attack (since we're looking at 13 dice to unarmed block).

Good point on the riposte, Aleksei wouldn't be able to block much. With the amount of str you'll have (and not much blocking) you might want to look at sweep/throw maneuvers. Ya need mitigation, and not so much from damage as from constant attacks. Getting into a fray with 4 people is much easier of 1 is knocked down and the other is being used as a meat bat.

Why have kick? It only adds 1 to reach, which you'll have at +3 as it is (1 from being a troll variant, 1 from being a cyclopse, and 1 more from surge quality). Once again, seems redundant.

no need for smashing blow, did you read blast damage elemental attacks?
Blast
The blast elemental effect is like a hurricane
wind or the shockwave of an explosion. Blast
damage is treated as Physical damage and is
resisted with half Impact armor (rounded up).
Characters struck with a Blast damage attack
are more likely to be knocked down—add the
Force to the damage inflicted when comparing
to the defender’s Body (see Knockdown, p.
151, SR4). Blast damage can also break glass
and knock over trees and other objects. At
the gamemaster’s discretion, objects with a
Structure rating less than the Force may be
knocked over, shattered, shredded, or otherwise
swept away.