Disallowed in Your Game Options

[Abstruse]

My new game's using 4e rules but set in 2050 (I want to run the old adventures and the metaplot damnit!), so the only things I'm banning are timeline-based. No changelings because the comet hasn't come by yet, some cyber/bio/gear isn't available yet (still in R&D), and any technomancers or drakes HAVE to take Dark Secret because if they get outed, they're in deep trouble.

Anything else pink mohawkish, I gently advise against that, but don't ban it. I just punish in-game. Took a 20 BP Enemy but don't put it in your backstory properly? Oh boy, you just gave me a blank check and told me to go to town. Are you really going to make a character that dresses in an anime-style schoolgirl outfit and uses a chaingun? I'm going to treat it as if you just took the Distinctive Style flaw but not give you the BP for it. Do you REALLY want to take that amnesia flaw? Because you just gave me another blank check...

[sabs]

Abtruse, you make me want to take the 20 point Enemy and Full Amnesia character flaw and play in your game (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Smokeskin]

Probably the single biggest in game problem would be the fact that you can be identified much more easily than the SINless can. You exist, you are tracked in credit reports, medical statistics, census, data, all sorts of things. If you have a criminal SIN they have all of that plus a DNA and Actual fingerprint.

All that biometric data is in a fake SIN too - have a fake SIN connected to a crime, and you're known. The only downsides to being a SINner are that people can find your real past and get background info, track family etc., and that compromised fake SINs only continue to exist in law enforcement databases while real SINs remain in the open realm.

[Daddy's Litt...]

We pretty much play 3rd ed BUT like the 4th ed rules on the matrix. Until those came out all deckers were NPC's. It was just too boring for the other players.

[Doc Chase]

All that biometric data is in a fake SIN too - have a fake SIN connected to a crime, and you're known. The only downsides to being a SINner are that people can find your real past and get background info, track family etc., and that compromised fake SINs only continue to exist in law enforcement databases while real SINs remain in the open realm.

I'd think that the fakes, being fakes, would be burnable - I.E. the biometrics are corrupted with a cascading failure on certain queries or a panicbutton from the 'runner, etc.

[Abstruse]

Abtruse, you make me want to take the 20 point Enemy and Full Amnesia character flaw and play in your game (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You take full amnesia, *I* make your character and you never get to see the sheet. I give you a blank sheet with anything obvious on it (your gear, any obvious cyberware (cyberlimb that isn't modified to look natural, cybereyes, datajack, etc.), your race/gender/physical description, etc.). You tell me what you want to do and *I* make the rolls for you, telling you how well you performed the action. If you use that particular skill/attribute combo enough, I might let you know what it is so you can put it on your sheet since you'd be able to judge how well/poorly you perform...but put it in pencil because you might've just gotten lucky/unlucky rolls. Your commlink is virgin fresh install with no personal info and you have a Street lifestyle (but you'll still be paying for whatever lifestyle is on your character sheet because rent/bills are autopaid even if you're not there) and you have no idea who your contacts are until you randomly meet them along the way.

And yes, you will probably end up with a character that you'll hate background-wise but I'll make sure the stats are something you'd like to play. If I know your IRL personality and know you donate to the ACLU and NAACP and GLAD and stuff like that, you're going to find out your character is second in command of the local Humanis chapter. If you're a conspiracy theorist who things the government is always out to get you, guess who's CIA black-ops!

And no, unlike the other players, you do NOT get to change characters anytime you feel like it.

[sabs]

Okay (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
sign me up

[Doc Chase]

I'm familiar with the concept of GMPC's, but good god, man. Just admit it and move along. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Johnny B. Good]

You take full amnesia, *I* make your character and you never get to see the sheet. I give you a blank sheet with anything obvious on it (your gear, any obvious cyberware (cyberlimb that isn't modified to look natural, cybereyes, datajack, etc.), your race/gender/physical description, etc.). You tell me what you want to do and *I* make the rolls for you, telling you how well you performed the action. If you use that particular skill/attribute combo enough, I might let you know what it is so you can put it on your sheet since you'd be able to judge how well/poorly you perform...but put it in pencil because you might've just gotten lucky/unlucky rolls. Your commlink is virgin fresh install with no personal info and you have a Street lifestyle (but you'll still be paying for whatever lifestyle is on your character sheet because rent/bills are autopaid even if you're not there) and you have no idea who your contacts are until you randomly meet them along the way.

And yes, you will probably end up with a character that you'll hate background-wise but I'll make sure the stats are something you'd like to play. If I know your IRL personality and know you donate to the ACLU and NAACP and GLAD and stuff like that, you're going to find out your character is second in command of the local Humanis chapter. If you're a conspiracy theorist who things the government is always out to get you, guess who's CIA black-ops!

And no, unlike the other players, you do NOT get to change characters anytime you feel like it.

My group is actually going to do an entire campaign where everybody has Amnesia II, and the GM holds all of the character sheets and does all of the dice rolls. We get to write down what we find out. The way the characters are working is everybody makes a character or two, and submits it to the GM. He'll be making changes as appropriate, and then shuffling the characters around so nobody gets their submission.

It'll be great fun for whoever gets my character.

[Smokeskin]

I'd think that the fakes, being fakes, would be burnable - I.E. the biometrics are corrupted with a cascading failure on certain queries or a panicbutton from the 'runner, etc.

If such a thing as a burnable fake SIN existed, you have to admit there'd also be a regular fake SIN - just your biometrics and a fake background that allows you to do all the things you need a SIN for. What do you call this, and what is the price?

Something as complex as a burnable fake SIN - which isn't just data in a database, but an option to execute code that systematically seeks out and deletes certain data in highly secure databases and their backups - would seem to be a lot more expensive than a regular fake SIN.

Are regular fake SINs dirt cheap in your campaign? Or are the superadvanced burnable fake SINs the only type available? Does the ability to selectively delete data in government and megacorp databases have other implications?

[Doc Chase]

If such a thing as a burnable fake SIN existed, you have to admit there'd also be a regular fake SIN - just your biometrics and a fake background that allows you to do all the things you need a SIN for. What do you call this, and what is the price?

Something as complex as a burnable fake SIN - which isn't just data in a database, but an option to execute code that systematically seeks out and deletes certain data in highly secure databases and their backups - would seem to be a lot more expensive than a regular fake SIN.

Are regular fake SINs dirt cheap in your campaign? Or are the superadvanced burnable fake SINs the only type available? Does the ability to selectively delete data in government and megacorp databases have other implications?

It's not exactly 'superadvanced' to say that if a certain query (or hey, a file) is accessed, the file writes itself to zero. Anyway.

I don't deal with fake SINs a lot in my games. I prefer not to sit and waste time rolling a cascade of dice every time characters walk down the street; the players themselves are smart enough to stay off the public grids where they can and are paranoid enough to where the hacker is trying to block every camera in sight. Such details bog down the game (but it doesn't stop me from thought experiments such as these).

A fake SIN is a fake SIN, whether or not the runner pays extra to get the 'burnable' option added on or not. I don't expect any but the most paranoid and details-oriented to get something like that stacked on. The biometrics may lead to the authorities building a file on you, yes, but it doesn't offer a pathway to your door unless they cut through all the data balkanization and set an active watch on your biometrics. You'd have to hack off every major corporation to the point where they all want you dead, with a seperate ID for each one since you'd need to burn it, and hack off several major national governments. If you're truly that bad a shadowrunner, you're going to get hosed long before you reach that point anyway.

[Saint Sithney]

How did you come up with that then? No where near Sensorsofts does it say they are Autosofts. They are not truly intended to run on a drone (They can, but it is not specific) and they do not give a Pilot program a specific skill or new ability (they augment them).

So a Drone can naturally Judge Intentions? I guess it's an attribute-only test, so it could do so at Pilotx2, but that seems... Disney? Like, is a Rail-mounted gun turret at Ares' Seattle branch going to notice that Dan from Accounts Receivable is feeling down since the boss is made him work on trivia night? Will it hum him a tune to help him perk up?
Functionally, this sensor software is no different than something like the Electronic Warfare Autosoft. It matches perceived input with algorithmically determined responses, (which means it should replace a skill, not augment it.) The only difference is that some idiot decided that a person can sort and process all the relevant data instantly or that it magically augments their perceptions so that they just know what the software knows.

But yeah, Sensor-softs certainly aren't in the list of Advanced Complex Forms, and, as they aren't Skillsofts, there's no reason to allow them to be Emulated.


I.. suppose this whole thing isn't much different than an autopicker or a medkit, but it somehow feels just so much stupider. Maybe the writer thought that Trogbash the Clubinator needed a little help at the meet-ups so he decided to make the equivalent of 300+ Karma in social skills cost 3000¥.

But, let's take a minute to imagine this thing. If you're in a conversation with a guy, and, meanwhile, in real time, reading a detailed analysis of how said guy is responding to your words, or you are being fed key trigger phrases on your image link, (or however you choose to imagine this device-to-person interaction,) that's supposed to make you look soooooo good? I don't buy it.
You're either engaged in the conversation, or you're not. Johnson can tell.
You're either reading from a teleprompter, or you're not. Johnson can tell.

I do want to make the concept work though. It is a legitimate avenue to pursue.
Let's say the Software or Software+Pilot/Agent takes a Complex Action to 'Sense Motive' and spits out an analysis. The character then takes an 'Observe in Detail' Action to digest the analysis and formulate an argument. Then, the character makes a tailored response. An adept with the multi-tasking Power should be able to do this in real time, but that's because they have specialized brain magic (and there ought to be some actual benefit to that Power..) Anybody else would have to be noticeably pausing at each thought or would be letting the software do the flying for them. In the first case, it's two separate tests. In the second case, the character is relying entirely on the software, which is perhaps what yon Clubinator should do..

[Doc Chase]

So a Drone can naturally Judge Intentions? I guess it's an attribute-only test, so it could do so at Pilotx2, but that seems... Disney? Like, is a Rail-mounted gun turret at Ares' Seattle branch going to notice that Dan from Accounts Receivable is feeling down since the boss is made him work on trivia night? Will it hum him a tune to help him perk up?

That would be a hella sweet way to screw with Dan from Accounts Receivable, if I was a bored spider...

[Saint Sithney]

Robots all bursting into song like you're at a Chuck E. Cheese...


(or did they only have that animatronic ~*magic*~ at Showbiz Pizza..)

[Doc Chase]

A host of Samurai acting like the mechanical singing bears, playing that assault rifle like it was a banjo?

It's worse than a bug infestation.

[Saint Sithney]

"IIIIIITT'S A VERY SPECIAL BIRTHDAY!! HHMMM-HHMMMM!! HHHMMM-HHMMMM!!"

[Stahlseele]

There will be no awakened critter/plant named the Redneck-Tree.
Else there will be carpet bombings with every weapon known to mankind by that time.

[TheeGravedigger]

I'm currently thinking of banning Erased, but that might just be because one of my players believes it's a Get Out of Jail Free Card.

[Stahlseele]

Which it's not . . it just makes it a bit harder to connect the dots . .
If he's getting cought in the act, he's as screwed as anybody else..

[Mesh]

I'd think that the fakes, being fakes, would be burnable - I.E. the biometrics are corrupted with a cascading failure on certain queries or a panicbutton from the 'runner, etc.

Cascading failures, Doc? Somebody's been watching too much Star Trek: Next Generation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The next thing you'll tell us is that reversing polarity can stop the cascading failure and save the ship... I mean the SIN. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Mesh

[Doc Chase]

Cascading failures, Doc? Somebody's been watching too much Star Trek: Next Generation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The next thing you'll tell us is that reversing polarity can stop the cascading failure and save the ship... I mean the SIN. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Mesh

Bounce the graviton particle beams off the main deflector dish
That's the way we do things, lad, we're makin' shit up as we wish
The Klingons and the Romulans pose no threat to us
'Cause if we find we're in a bind, we'll just make some shit up

[MortVent]

Fake sins wouldn't have built in burn, becuase then the hacker would lose the income from selling the burn services as extras after the runner needs to ditch them

[Doc Chase]

Fake sins wouldn't have built in burn, becuase then the hacker would lose the income from selling the burn services as extras after the runner needs to ditch them

True. It would be an extra.

Like a subwoofer in your car.

[Falanin]

Robots all bursting into song like you're at a Chuck E. Cheese...

(or did they only have that animatronic ~*magic*~ at Showbiz Pizza..)

Fixed.

[Smokeskin]

The biometrics may lead to the authorities building a file on you, yes, but it doesn't offer a pathway to your door unless they cut through all the data balkanization and set an active watch on your biometrics. You'd have to hack off every major corporation to the point where they all want you dead, with a seperate ID for each one since you'd need to burn it, and hack off several major national governments. If you're truly that bad a shadowrunner, you're going to get hosed long before you reach that point anyway.

I fully agree. My point was merely that being a SINner isn't all that bad - SINless getting a fake SIN linked to a crime is in exactly the same boat regarding biometric data and such. And even with fake SINs, you can't be careless about having your "identity" exposed.