.....Skillwires....., ......... general questions..... Options

[iategod]

I got a few questions for the use of skillwires. The first i'm having trouble understanding is; While sustaining a spell (-2 penalty) and say, piloting a chopper using a activesoft rating 4, would my piloting suffer the penalty? The way i see it, i'm not concentrating on the piloting since it's just software. Or is it? I figure since i can not spend edge on skillwire skills they are like autopilot instinctual software packages.

Whats your opinion on this? Any GMs come across this problem?

[Lanlaorn]

Of course the penalty applies, it even applies when you actually just use software (e.g. Analyze or Browse, whatever). The sustaining spells penalty represents the concentration required to maintain the spell, and so it applies to anything more complicated than breathing.

[Yerameyahu]

Skillwires are not (any more?) independent overrides of your body. They're a system that interacts with your brain, and you have to intentially *use* it; no autopilot. That's the tradeoff: you can get skillsofts for any nonmagical skill, even creative ones, and you can use them even in full VR (no muscles involved), but it's not a Pilot rating.

[iategod]

ah, ok. I'm thinking cyberpunk.

Still seems a bit over powered. One min i can be an ok hacker. The next i can be driving anything. With enough memory and wireless capabilities i could have potential access to everything, aside from spellcasting.

I suppose this brings me to the next question, upon investment, do i just buy activesoft at chargen or pay the fee after chargen? I guess i'm wondering if there's a torrent based site in 2072 where i can get activesofts and the like at anytime?

[DrZaius]

I'm pretty opposed to the concept of "pirated" activesofts and matrix programs in the Shadowrun setting.
1, it sidesteps a game balance issue (you're getting more BP than your teammates through chicanery)
2, I think of programs in 2070 as so complex that re-producing or 'hacking' their software would be extremely difficult.

My 2 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) , YMMV

[Squiddy Attack]

With enough memory and wireless capabilities i could have potential access to everything, aside from spellcasting.

Skillsofts are expensive, and even the best skillwires can only have so many ranks worth of activesofts running at once.

[Yerameyahu]

Well, skillwires are never as good as real skills can be. They *are* costly, they take essence, and you do have to buy the softs (even pirated, not cheap to maintain).

Right, like Squiddy said. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

No way, there's really nothing commercial that can't be pirated, DrZaius. Perhaps the rules could be tweaked (faster degen, etc.), but it's very much setting-apropriate.

[Squiddy Attack]

And one activesoft is going to cost more than a skillwire system of the same rating -- 2,000 x rating for the wires, 10,000 x rating for one skillsoft.

Seems a little silly to me, considering one is a program and one is a cybernetic system installed via presumably invasive surgical procedures, but maybe that's just me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)



Edit: Actually, discovered something bizarre. My 20th-anniversary copy of the core rulebook says skillsofts cost 10,000 x rating, but a PDF of the non-anniversary edition says it's 3,000 x rating.

[DrZaius]

Well, skillwires are never as good as real skills can be. They *are* costly, they take essence, and you do have to buy the softs (even pirated, not cheap to maintain).

Right, like Squiddy said. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

No way, there's really nothing commercial that can't be pirated, DrZaius. Perhaps the rules could be tweaked (faster degen, etc.), but it's very much setting-apropriate.

I'm not saying it isn't possible, I just think it's unbalancing. Why should a hacker get their stuff for free when everyone else has to pay for theirs? There was a lengthy article on how it wouldn't work a while back, but I'm far too lazy to look it up, or argue the point with much enthusiasm.

[Belvidere]

And one activesoft is going to cost more than a skillwire system of the same rating -- 2,000 x rating for the wires, 10,000 x rating for one skillsoft.

Seems a little silly to me, considering one is a program and one is a cybernetic system installed via presumably invasive surgical procedures, but maybe that's just me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)



Edit: Actually, discovered something bizarre. My 20th-anniversary copy of the core rulebook says skillsofts cost 10,000 x rating, but a PDF of the non-anniversary edition says it's 3,000 x rating.

Yeah, they changed it in anniversary edition. With original 4e ruling, you were getting an effective rank in a skill with a few drawbacks, such as not being able to run too many at once, ect for less that 1bp at chargen. They raised the price to 10k. (/sarcasm...So now it's 2BP!)

[Yerameyahu]

It's not free, it's 10% retail every 1-2 months. Retail lasts infinite months. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I fully agree that *free* would be bad, which is why I argue against people who (erroneously) claim that the Errata says 'self-coded programs never degrade' and are 100% free.

Squiddy Attack: SPSS costs thousands, Photoshop costs over a thousand (?), you don't even want to know what corporate 'software solutions' cost… you're totally right that implanted 'ware should be expensive, but there's no reason really advanced software can't be expensive, too. Hard to get more advanced than magi-tech 'it just works, okay!?' skillsofts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Belvidere]

I'm not saying it isn't possible, I just think it's unbalancing. Why should a hacker get their stuff for free when everyone else has to pay for theirs? There was a lengthy article on how it wouldn't work a while back, but I'm far too lazy to look it up, or argue the point with much enthusiasm.

I wouldn't entirely say that Hacker's can get their stuff free while everyone else is stuck paying for theirs. I actually found it annoying that other people could steal their gear when my hacker was left sitting in the dust with his programs because he couldn't pirate them until unwired launched.

Absolutely nothing is stoppin' the meat heads from endangering their lives by breaking into weapon shops and clinics to get their gear and 'are. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) Meanwhile, I'll sit nice and safe in my apartment with my commlink and AR decorations. Hey! It's kind of like the rest of shadowrun.

[Belvidere]

And don't forget that getting pirated software runs the risk of getting bugs in the program. Which is a big deal if you're an elitist hacker. I, as a GM would roll off for every pirated program one of my PCs picked up. I couldn't even tell you how many people I know who've picked up programs laden with bugs, viruses and worms. It's nasty

[Squiddy Attack]

Squiddy Attack: SPSS costs thousands, Photoshop costs over a thousand (?), you don't even want to know what corporate 'software solutions' cost… you're totally right that implanted 'ware should be expensive, but there's no reason really advanced software can't be expensive, too. Hard to get more advanced than magi-tech 'it just works, okay!?' skillsofts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Point taken. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Doc Chase]

Or just plain wrong. Nothing like having a hacker roll up with a pirated 6.0, load it up, turn it on, and it's Hello Kitty Arcology Adventure.

[Yerameyahu]

Right: if piracy is a problem in your game, bugs are another good way to help with that. It means that the hacker has to invest time to find and clean them.

Haha, I'd play that game.

[Squiddy Attack]

"Hello Kitty Arcology Adventure"?

Wonder what the interval would be for writing/coding that...

[Jhaiisiin]

Turns out it has two "modes." The first is when you simply go through, pleasing corp brats, collecting power ups and gems and such from the shops, and generally having a merry time.

If you survive that boring shite, then you unlock Arcology 2059 mode, where you have to fight through to destroy Deus.

Needless to say, mode 2 is not being advertised.

[KCKitsune]

I read a crack fanfic where Hello Kitty had to deal with Sanrio execs (maybe they lived in the Arcology?). Here is the good part:

Badzt Maru's eyes bugged out of their sockets. "Oh no, not *that* one!"

"Oh, but why not?" Hello Kitty begged. She walked over to the crate and opened the lid. Her eyes glazed over with big pink hearts. "Ooooooo!" she squealed in delight.

"Oh fer chrissakes, not that thing!" Badzt Maru pleaded.

Hello Kitty would have none of that. She reached into the box and removed the manufacturer's technical manual. "The General Electric M-261E1 5.56mm six-barreled electric minigun..." she read aloud.

"Absolutely not!" Badzt Maru cried.

"Why not?" Hello Kitty protested.

"You couldn't even *lift* the thing!"

Hello Kitty looked down into the crate. "Yes I could," she replied.

"What are you smoking?! That thing has to be three times bigger than you!"

"Oh, but I *could* lift it," she said. "For I--" She reached into the crate. With a grunt of exertion, she withdrew the heavy gatling gun and brandished it at port arms. Badzt Maru was correct; the weapon was easily three times bigger than Hello Kitty. "--have the strength of madness!!!" she declared proudly.

[Fanatic]

Isn't "Hello Kitty" one of the new metavariants in RC?
There are so many of those in there, that i wouldn't be surprised if you could at least build one.
Perhaps a surged gnome with fur and a devilish smile?

[KCKitsune]

Isn't "Hello Kitty" one of the new metavariants in RC?
There are so many of those in there, that i wouldn't be surprised if you could at least build one.
Perhaps a surged gnome with fur and a devilish smile?

Easy to do:
Gnome Meta-variant with SURGE level 2

• Positive: Glamour
• Positive: Balance Tail
• Negative: Unusual Hair
• Negative: [Insert 5 pt Negative Quality Here]

[Smokeskin]

Skillwires aren't so bad. The 0.8 Essence is by far the worst cost - and at 16 availability you need a Quality to get them at chargen. And they don't really offer that much. Instead of spending that Essence on boosting your primary and secondary roles, you're getting a few more dice on skills some of your teammates are probably much better at anyway.

For a jack-of-all-trades type character, they're awesome, but a minmaxed char wouldn't be caught dead with them.

[KarmaInferno]

Skillwires aren't so bad. The 0.8 Essence is by far the worst cost - and at 16 availability you need a Quality to get them at chargen. And they don't really offer that much. Instead of spending that Essence on boosting your primary and secondary roles, you're getting a few more dice on skills some of your teammates are probably much better at anyway.

For a jack-of-all-trades type character, they're awesome, but a minmaxed char wouldn't be caught dead with them.

My 4ed character only has them cos he has Move By Wire.



-karma

[Yerameyahu]

Indeed. Generalist-ization shouldn't be discouraged, because it's non-powergaming. And you're definitely *paying* for it. Even if you get it 'free' with MBW, *those* are expensive too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Lanlaorn]

Skillwires seem pretty slick on a Mage IMO, if you're going to use up 1 point of essence anyway on something to help drain (cerebral boosters, PuSheD, Trauma Damper, Pain Editor, Platelet Factories, whatever) then getting some cyberware is also smart since the 50% essence costs are a really efficient use of that 1.0 essence. Anyway Skillwires in particular are nice because they let you use nuyen to advance various side skills while you can spend Karma on your spells, foci, magic and initiation. Skillwires 3 with the personalized option is 4 skill and that's plenty for Dodge, Perception, Automatics, First Aid, Hardware, etc.