Stacking Commlinks Options

[hobgoblin]

actually, only a active mode node do the mesh thing. but then its close to mandatory in the nicer areas, so...

[Yerameyahu]

Yes, thank you Max. I meant, 'when you could otherwise participate'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Good point, hobgoblin, thanks.

[Johnny B. Good]

Ofcource you can, you just rip of the wireless chip from the node and replace it with fibreoptic line to the next node.

Or just turn the wireless off and datajack it. Wirelessly daisy chained commlinks is the most secure way. You don't even really need IC, just good analyze programs on each. By the time they get to one outside of your main node, you can just unsubscribe your main and do some mass wireless connection resets of the others to dump the hacker from your system.

However, I am 90% sure that routing your hacking attempts through any other node does cause response degredation.

[BobChuck]

The intent of the rules is clear: if you can get out onto the matrix, someone else can get to you.

It doesn't matter how many subscribed nodes you route your signal through; if you are in VR, you are in the node you're hacking; they don't have to go through anything to get to you.

If you pull out, there's not a whole lot of mechanical difference between spoofing your connection to begin with and then changing your ID, and setting up a big complex multi-node rig. The data doesn't go away; anything, once released to the internet, is out there forever, you just have to find it.

All a big fancy rig like this does is give you - no, your programed agents - a little bit more time to spot the intruder. It does not provide any kind of blanket protection, just slows them down, which makes automated detection more likely.

If you are able to make Matrix Perception rolls to notice their activity in that node, then you are in that node. That is quite clearly how the rules are supposed to work, regardless of writer error. So all you have to rely on is an agent doing the work for you.

Also, I think that daisy-chaining connections has to reduce your response. It's entirely possible that the writers didn't consider this idea, and so failed to include a rule that should be there, but dropping response by one for every node with barriers you have to route through to get out makes sense.
Once you take the barrier down, or put in a loophole so you can go through, there's no penalty, but if it's protecting you, it slows you down, period. At least, that seems like how it should work, assuming the rules are fair and consistent.

[KarmaInferno]

Er, the discussion isn't a hacker out in the digital wilderness trying used stacked nodes to protect himself.

The discussion is a target system a hacker might be trying to break INOTO using stacked nodes to protect internal paydata.





-karma

[KarmaInferno]

ack, double post.

[Yerameyahu]

… No, the discussion (for me and Tymeaus) was definitely about personal hacker PC *defenses*. We just used 'target' systems as examples for the discussion. However, it clearly works both ways, and the OP wasn't clearly interested in only one or the other. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Both sides are vital to consider.

[Dumori]

Actually there, Yerameyahu, Proxies are the way to go if you are going to do that... it may impact your reesponse a bit (-1 per Proxy) but your tracing stops at the proxy, not at your comlink...

Another way to do that by the rules is to Subscribe multiple Nodes (Individual Comlinks) to a Master Node with no SIgnal range but DNI connections to teh other Nodes (DO NOT Slave them, but Subscribe them)... and then initiate your Hacking attempts from the Subscribed Node/s (Much like a layered network in a way)... Example: Primary Node has 3 Subscribed Nodes (Call them A, B, and C)... I initiate my Hacking from any Node (A, B, or C), it does not really matter which, and proceed from there... to hit your primary node, they must hit one of your outer nodes first (The one you are hacking from obviously, as they are the only ones with a Signal out), and then they must move from the outer node to the inner node to hit your Primary Node and its other subscriptions. Layered Systems work from comlinks just as well as they work from Nexi... The benefit to the layered protocols is that you can employ security on each layered node to protect the next inner layer... makes it very difficult for the Opponent to actually do anything to you quickly, and may eliminate them before they ever reach the central node. Another benefit is that you can have each Node with it's own number of Subscriptions available; you may have to scroll through them by Node, but you can have large amounts of active subscriptions (Assumming that you need large amounts of subscriptions for some reason)...

As for a Bionode... someone already answered that one as well... TM's can hack other TM's Bionodes...

Plus with layored nodes done right you can dynamical shut-down and reboot one and temporarily reorganize the layers. If done right you can use this to really piss of the hacker shut down the node he in-the process of getting into voiding the attempt replace it with and other for a small time and repeat causing him to forever have to hack changing firewalls or at least for long-enough to trace, deck him out ect plus you can reboot the node hes in and move another node to your outer one too. This method woudl require vaild users to be able to log on to every node and knwo the rotaition in adavence so its not really vaild for high traffic areas but to proect pay data or your own main com it works to an extent sending all the suffer commands eats a lot of actions lets hope you have 5ip or find a way to agent it all.

[hobgoblin]

It doesn't matter how many subscribed nodes you route your signal through; if you are in VR, you are in the node you're hacking; they don't have to go through anything to get to you.

no diff with AR, just to be pedantic. Heck, this persona concept makes electronic trespassing laws somewhat easier vs real life IP addresses and such (especially once one consider open wifi networks and NAT routers, tho i guess they fall under the SR proxy rules).

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

actually, only a active mode node do the mesh thing. but then its close to mandatory in the nicer areas, so...

Passive also passes along signal data as well, even if you do not physically accept those things into your own comlink, they still route... Hidden shuts that functionality down from what I remember...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

The intent of the rules is clear: if you can get out onto the matrix, someone else can get to you.

It doesn't matter how many subscribed nodes you route your signal through; if you are in VR, you are in the node you're hacking; they don't have to go through anything to get to you.

If you pull out, there's not a whole lot of mechanical difference between spoofing your connection to begin with and then changing your ID, and setting up a big complex multi-node rig. The data doesn't go away; anything, once released to the internet, is out there forever, you just have to find it.

All a big fancy rig like this does is give you - no, your programed agents - a little bit more time to spot the intruder. It does not provide any kind of blanket protection, just slows them down, which makes automated detection more likely.

If you are able to make Matrix Perception rolls to notice their activity in that node, then you are in that node. That is quite clearly how the rules are supposed to work, regardless of writer error. So all you have to rely on is an agent doing the work for you.

Also, I think that daisy-chaining connections has to reduce your response. It's entirely possible that the writers didn't consider this idea, and so failed to include a rule that should be there, but dropping response by one for every node with barriers you have to route through to get out makes sense.
Once you take the barrier down, or put in a loophole so you can go through, there's no penalty, but if it's protecting you, it slows you down, period. At least, that seems like how it should work, assuming the rules are fair and consistent.

If daisy chained Nodes degraded, a large number of Corporation in the world today would not be able to function with computers...

Just sayin...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Plus with layored nodes done right you can dynamical shut-down and reboot one and temporarily reorganize the layers. If done right you can use this to really piss of the hacker shut down the node he in-the process of getting into voiding the attempt replace it with and other for a small time and repeat causing him to forever have to hack changing firewalls or at least for long-enough to trace, deck him out ect plus you can reboot the node hes in and move another node to your outer one too. This method woudl require vaild users to be able to log on to every node and knwo the rotaition in adavence so its not really vaild for high traffic areas but to proect pay data or your own main com it works to an extent sending all the suffer commands eats a lot of actions lets hope you have 5ip or find a way to agent it all.

The biggest benefit is that if you detect an intrusion before it accesses your secure research data, you can immediately segregate your research nodes (assuming that it does not cause irreperable data loss/corruption to do so) and pull them from the network... it is very easy to do... It also makes High End Hackers like Slammo! and Netcat, who do not appear to be big blunt hammers, to penetrate a system with little to no trace... If you are good, you do not fear the security, because you will likely not be detected.

Remember... Nodes on the Matrix are CONSTANTLY bombarded by viral advertising, Hacking Attempts, and Data Requests in a constant blur of data. If you are rebooting every time you detect an intrusion you will NEVER get anything done in your organization. To mitigate that, you take other Steps... Your ARC on the outer node is probably going to be an automated response to just log off the intruding signal... deeper intot eh system, the ARC may perform other directives, depending upon the node.

It behooves a Hacker/Technomancer to be skilled in myriad ways of penetrating a target system... Use of Sprites, Agents, Worms, Trojans and Viruses, along with Stealth and/or Attack options, the various DDO style assaults, or other tactics, make for a very effective digital intrusion specialist; and most systems will be configured to respond to each of these situations in different ways. Use them all and you are likely to penetrate to your goal and get back out alive, with the data needed, and any traces redirected to some null point that leads the opposition no-where...

[Yerameyahu]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) No one's talking about the world today, though. It's game balance in a game world.

Damn spam. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Dumori]

The biggest benefit is that if you detect an intrusion before it accesses your secure research data, you can immediately segregate your research nodes (assuming that it does not cause irreperable data loss/corruption to do so) and pull them from the network... it is very easy to do... It also makes High End Hackers like Slammo! and Netcat, who do not appear to be big blunt hammers, to penetrate a system with little to no trace... If you are good, you do not fear the security, because you will likely not be detected.

Remember... Nodes on the Matrix are CONSTANTLY bombarded by viral advertising, Hacking Attempts, and Data Requests in a constant blur of data. If you are rebooting every time you detect an intrusion you will NEVER get anything done in your organization. To mitigate that, you take other Steps... Your ARC on the outer node is probably going to be an automated response to just log off the intruding signal... deeper intot eh system, the ARC may perform other directives, depending upon the node.

It behooves a Hacker/Technomancer to be skilled in myriad ways of penetrating a target system... Use of Sprites, Agents, Worms, Trojans and Viruses, along with Stealth and/or Attack options, the various DDO style assaults, or other tactics, make for a very effective digital intrusion specialist; and most systems will be configured to respond to each of these situations in different ways. Use them all and you are likely to penetrate to your goal and get back out alive, with the data needed, and any traces redirected to some null point that leads the opposition no-where...

By intrusion I mean one where rebooting would save your ass as in a hacker in you nodes You'd have toe reboot cycle as a global scritp ready for the I really need to stop them getting in moments.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

By intrusion I mean one where rebooting would save your ass as in a hacker in you nodes You'd have toe reboot cycle as a global scritp ready for the I really need to stop them getting in moments.

Always good as a last resort tactic, sure... It is just that a reboot takes time to initiate and come back up, you may still have issues as the system reboots, before anyone is kicked out by the reboot sequence... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)

[hobgoblin]

Passive also passes along signal data as well, even if you do not physically accept those things into your own comlink, they still route... Hidden shuts that functionality down from what I remember...

unwired, p54, routing, says something else.

so basically, unless the hacker happens to have an account for the office network being targeted (remember, while hacking in provides the equivalent rights of and account level, its not an account), he will have to hack every passive or hidden node on the network thats between him and the target node. And as there is no benefit to be had for running a office node in active (that i can see) they are probably passive.

[Voran]

It occurs to me that a nice way to screw with a corp, and perhaps make it difficult for them to deal with, is making part of their 'ad filters' and 'spam blockers' block legitimate (but sporadic, cause that'd be more fun) traffic. Woops, looks like today your spam blocker has decided that automated funds transfer (your paycheck) is spam.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

unwired, p54, routing, says something else.

so basically, unless the hacker happens to have an account for the office network being targeted (remember, while hacking in provides the equivalent rights of and account level, its not an account), he will have to hack every passive or hidden node on the network thats between him and the target node. And as there is no benefit to be had for running a office node in active (that i can see) they are probably passive.

Indeed it does, My apologies... I, for some reason, read Peripheral nodes as Passive... not sure why... thanks for the clarification...

As for hacking passive/hidden nodes, there are more than enough peripheral nodes in signal range of most comlinks, that active interval nodes betweeen you and the target are not all that difficult to establish... where it gets tricky is the nodes of the target system, you can pretty much guarantee that you are going to be hacking each node unless you have that account for the office network as you pointed out... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)