Would gun foci be unbalanced? Options

[Tanegar]

I don't want to start a flame war. I have no dog in this race. I'm just wondering if allowing ranged weapon foci would break the game. I understand the fluff explanation: a focus can only be active as long as it's in contact with the magician/adept it's bonded to. I'm asking about crunch: would a gun adept with a gun focus be noticeably overpowered compared with a (for example) sword adept with a sword focus and similar powers?

[Doc Chaos]

Imagine a Mage who could cast one or two 5(+net hits)K energybolts per combat phase... without drain. There's pretty much your answer.

[Glyph]

Allowing such a thing would make adepts significantly more powerful. A firearm weapon focus would add still more dice to the huge dice pools that gun adepts are already capable of having. And the ability to bypass a spirit's immunity to normal weapons with a ranged attack would make them far more effective against spirits, too.

It probably wouldn't break the game, but it would be giving a significant power boost to one type of character, so if you did that, you might want to consider ways to beef up mundanes, too, to keep it balanced.

[IKerensky]

Even without ressorting to magic dogma, just imagine what will happen with all thoses bullets and the differences and similitud between astral and physical space.

What happen when you shoot a bullet in the physical world when this bullet is a focus and thus will also impact the astral world ? You are in astral combat, running 100m/s shooting with your astral gun at another mage.. where are thoses bullets going in the real world ?

I have no real trouble with a spear or boomerang astral foci. But a gun is more trouble than just the "stay in contact" part, you have to enchant each and every bullet individually. And the mecanism will just not work in Astral space as specified in the rules, (an astral chainsaw is just a very heavy club).

[Elfenlied]

Making guns into Weapon Foci wouldn't break the game, as long as only melee attacks with that gun apply the force bonus. E.g. an Assault Rifle as a weapon focus would only add the focus effects for attacks using the rifle to bash enemies.

[MortVent]

Could also look into modified rules where expendable foci are paid for at creation not use (make them learn the first way then the second metamagic) so they can make a clip of very expensive bullets that have an anchored slay spirit spell on them (or dragon...)

But pistols and all can be foci, the rules had a point in them where it only applied to melee attacks iirc in one of ht ebooks past or present

[Hagga]

And the ability to bypass a spirit's immunity to normal weapons with a ranged attack would make them far more effective against spirits, too.

Wasn't this the main reason that there is no non-spell ranged attacks that affect things immune to normal weapons, aside from distance strike?

Just pick up Attunement (Pistols) instead. It's sort of like a focus anyway.

[Laodicea]

Yes.

It's debatable wtih other kinds of projectiles like bows.

[CanRay]

And I thought one Player wanting a Monofiliment Whip Focus was bad...

[Laodicea]

And I thought one Player wanting a Monofiliment Whip Focus was bad...

yeah, but thats actually legal by RAW.

[Dumori]

And very usefull.

[Laodicea]

particularly when str is your dump stat.

[Doc Chase]

Guns as foci gives you the movie Wanted.

Nobody wants that.

[sabs]

Also gives you the comic book wanted.

And what's wrong with a 3/4 naked Angelina Jolie covered in tattoos?

[CanRay]

yeah, but thats actually legal by RAW.

Yeah. I still doubled the price of enchantment due to the extensively manufactured nature of the object.

The Player didn't disagree.

[SpellBinder]

...
Just pick up Attunement (Pistols) instead. It's sort of like a focus anyway.

That's what I was thinking when I first started reading through this thread. Otherwise it's Gun Mages and Magelock Pistols here we come.

Though a pistol of some kind acting as a power focus for a magician could be interesting... Watch as the person shoots a lighting bolt or fireball out of the barrel.

[CanRay]

"All he's got is a Streetline Special, what's he going to do with it?" *BOOM* "Um... Other than that?" *KA-ZAP* "OK... I'm seriously thinking that the Ares Predator is not the end-all, be-all the guy at the gun store said it would."

[sabs]

That's what I was thinking when I first started reading through this thread. Otherwise it's Gun Mages and Magelock Pistols here we come.

Though a pistol of some kind acting as a power focus for a magician could be interesting... Watch as the person shoots a lighting bolt or fireball out of the barrel.

Mana bolts out of the pistol.
Talk about a very sad armored troll.

[Dumori]

gauss rifle foucs for a mystic adept sniper. What can't it kill (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Maelstrome]

i allow ranged weapon focuses. the only bonus you get from them in ranged combat though are the extra dice.
2 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

[Tanegar]

That's what I was thinking when I first started reading through this thread. Otherwise it's Gun Mages and Magelock Pistols here we come.

Though a pistol of some kind acting as a power focus for a magician could be interesting... Watch as the person shoots a lighting bolt or fireball out of the barrel.

Now that's a very interesting idea. A gun as a Combat Spellcasting focus.

[Udoshi]

As written, Guns can be weapon focuses very easily. You can enchant anything, after all. However, weapon focuses only benefit melee attacks, so it only works when gunbashing.
As a side benefit, though, a pair of warhawks as weapon foci 1's let you take a pair of guns into the astral realms. You can't fire them or anything, but, hey, style counts. Ahem.

On the other hand, other types of foci are totally doable, and actually useful. A sustaining focus for Detection spells, for example, is rather useful. Pair it with an Enhance Aim spell, and you've basically made a magical scope. How bout Detect Life/Detect Enemies (just tell your team its Detect Targets). It would have to be high rating or Edged to get past object resistance, but Analyze Device does give you extra dice to shoot people.
Yeah, for a combat mage, a Detection sustaining foci gun is a pretty potent buy.
Additionally, if you have Extended Masking and a foci weapon(not necessarily a weapon focus), you can use it to sneak it past magical security.

Another possibility for adepts are Infusion foci. Sure, you need the metamagic for it, but a gun that gives you a few free dice of Improved Weapon Skill: Pistols/automatics/whatever or even combat sense aren't too bad.

[Tanegar]

Wow. I would never have thought of any of that.

Now I have a burning urge to build a combat mage who knows no combat spells of any kind, yet still manages to kick 108 different kinds of ass.

[Udoshi]

Now I'm curious. How would you do it?

Energy aura would be a given. Its just so badass for melee combat of any sort.

[Udoshi]

Also, because this is a thread about Gun weapon foci, I should point out that, very technically, a Taser with Wires makes for a -hilarious- foci.

Okay, sure, if its a weapon foci you don't get bonus dice, because it adds to melee attacks, and shooting someone isn't melee.
But....
You never let go of a taser. It doesn't deactivate. Even the dart's still connected to the gun.

This leads to: Defiance EX Taser-foci vs Spirits. Go go gadget electricity damage.

Personally, i've been trying to pitch a Custom Enchantment to a GM: a simple addition to a foci that lets it channel touch spells. As written, if you cast a touch spell, well, you have to touch someone. If you're holding something in your hand, such as a sword foci, it can't carry over the spell. It would be pretty cool to cast Shatter, and then hit someone with a weapon foci, and such an enchantment would let you do that. Its not terribly broken, just lets you use a piece of equipment instead of your hand to do stuff you already know how.