Powergaming, ...where do you draw the line Options

[Rand]

Good thing this isn't for school (which I ahven't been at for years....). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stahlseele]

Citation Needed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

*snort* well played ^^

[Critias]

such skills should only take time and money to develope, not money.

I'm sure there's a simple typo to blame here, but I'm really not sure what you're trying to say.

[Stahlseele]

yeah, replace the last money with karma <.<

[Critias]

Got'cha.

I disagree, but whatever works for you and your games, I guess. If every skill wasn't supposed to cost karma to raise, then they wouldn't have a karma cost chart, etc, etc. *shrugs*

[Glyph]

I think the GM should work to ensure, as much as possible, that everyone gets to contribute to the game. But trying to get everyone on the same power level is more problematic. How do you guage the "power level" between someone who is great at shooting, vs. someone who is okay at shooting, but is also okay at driving, performing first aid, sneaking, and some other useful skills?

Despite the quantifiable stats and dice pools, the power level of any given combo depends a lot on the game. If it is a game with hardly any combat, and pretty tame combat when it does take place, a gun specialist might feel overshadowed, and regret "wasting" all of those points on getting a high weapon skill. On the other hand, if the game is nothing but a shoot-em-up, then the guy who can sneak, fast-talk, etc. will be the one feeling like he has wasted his points. In a game with little magical opposition, an average mage may be the functional equivalent in power to the tweaked and min-maxed street samurai.

I think the more optimal approach to balanced PCs isn't taking the Harrison Bergeron approach, but instead, letting people play what they want, and giving each character a chance to shine. The strength of the system is that for the same allocation of build points, you can make a dizzying array of concepts. Let people play them, instead of worrying about whether the old-school gumshoe detective, the changeling freak ex-pit fighter, the cold-eyed former company man, the mage from the halls of academia, and the ex-Sioux border guard are "balanced".

[jakephillips]

My own personal definition of powergaming is that it is only one of several ways that a single person can play in such a way that he or she is not in synch with the rest of the group. Powergaming doesn't happen in a vacuum. That's why I think it is such a good idea for a GM to set some expectations as to power level before the game starts.

I think the powergaming label can be overused, though. It's one thing if you are playing completely differently than everyone else. It's another thing when someone else gets pissy because your character is more effective than theirs is. I have little sympathy for that. Especially for intentionally gimped characters. If roleplaying is overwhelmingly important to you, then someone else having more dice for pistols shouldn't matter to you.

I could not agree with you more. I think it is about the level of the game you are ALL playing in. My game is like a hard core 90's action movie assault rifles, armor jackets + FFBA level 3 and grenades. Some folks might consider all of the alpha and beta grade cyberware, multiple initiations magic stats of 9 powergaming but the entire group is on the same playing field high powered. The challenges they face are also hard and crazy for them, and they have a great time.

I think the core problem comes into being when only a couple of the characters in the group are much higher powered than the rest of the group. This breeds resentment and causes the GM problems creating balanced encounters.
Just my two cents.

[Yerameyahu]

Yes. Also, even if the whole group is powergaming equally, that *can* be a GM problem.

[Voran]

I also tend to equate powergaming with ME ME ME! behavior. Historically, when I ran a group my goal was a joint enjoyment of session, sure some players and their characters will stand out, and that's fine, but when it gets to the point that one specific player starts taking away from the rest of others enjoyment, through grandstanding, or "yeah I can wipe everything out, stand there and hold my towel" kinda situations, things need to be addressed.

I also tended to not look fondly on the guy playing the CN Rogue that wants, yet again, to stray away from the group so he can run solo stuff, but that's not a powergaming issue.

Heh, yknow, if we look at recent comics for examples, I'd claim "The Sentry" as an ultimate powergamer character, uber powers, the 'i can do anything' powerset, and a bunch of flaws that aren't really flaws cause ultimately it still allows the character to be the center of attention and STILL able to kick everyone's ass. At least until they finally erased him in the last issues of Siege. Though they still left the door open for his return, just like a true powergamer character (I'm not really dead!)