Forcing players to spend money on FUN, Anyone done this? Options

[Smokeskin]

So, I'm getting a bit tired of players either
a) saving everything they make for new cyber or
b) roleplaying properly and using it on lifestyle and such and getting punished for it balancewise compared to those that chose a).

So I'm thinking of after each payout, players can allocate par of their money for Fun

Fun <50%: -1 karma
Fun 50%: +/-0 karma
Fun 80%: +1 karma

Fun money can be spend on
- lifestyle, bars, vacations, investments (I want players to live like real people, and flesh out their characters with enjoying themselves, or saving money for the future, or whatever their dreams and desires are)
- replacements (this is to give the players the option to wreck or sacrifice their stuff or get rid off evidence on runs without getting punished for it)
- consumables (ammo, missiles, etc. - that's also fun!)

I'd increase payments to reflect this new scheme.

It also gives cash-starved players an option to trade karma for cash, and vice versa.

Ideally I'd want a sliding scale, so bigger payments required larger proportions allocated for fun. This would be so I didn't have to railroad players away from big payoffs - it would be fun to let the players get away with doublecrossing the Johnson and making millions on it, without upsetting the power level of the campaign.

Anyone have any experience with something like this, or have an alternative solution?

[Udoshi]

Simple solultion: Tie Player Happyness to Edge Refreshment.

After the run, did you go out, get a few drinks with friends, and have fun? Sweet, have a point of edge back. Take a weeklong cruise to wind down? Have it all back, and a bonus one. That kind of thing.

Now your powergamers have a reason to play like real people.

[Doc Chaos]

Uhm... isn't lifestyle covered by... lifestyle...?

[Blade]

I agree with Udoshi, that's how I do it in my games.

Other ways that could be interesting:
- Explain to your players that each run can be the last one and that most runners will spend most of their money to have fun while they're still alive.
- Have the PC roll a willpower*2 test at the end of each run (with negative modifiers if it was, for example, difficult or stressful) and have a table showing how much (in %) the PC will spend for fun.
- (borrowed from Nath:) Force the players to have a "runner lifestyle". The runner lifestyle is luxury for as long as possible, then high, middle, low and so on.

[Yerameyahu]

Psh. 'Fun'. God forbid they spend their money on gear. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stingray]

..or paying their Debt's (charc's w/ In-Debt Quality)
..well..it is Fun walking w/ your legs, not being somewhere in the dark alley bleeding after visit of loan sharks friends.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Inpu]

Mm, but what happens when a player plays someone particularly devoted to their job? Where, for instance, a new gun is their fun?

It's not a bad idea, and I like some of the suggestions, but as with all things it doesn't cover every situation. I'd say make it apparent that Roleplaying will net you more Karma and possibly new contacts when you make friends, and people will see a good reason to play things out.

[Smokeskin]

Psh. 'Fun'. God forbid they spend their money on gear. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I don't want them spending less money on gear. I want to increase payments but more or less force them to spend the increase on roleplaying stuff (and for the players already doing that, they'll get more money to spend on gear).

[Smokeskin]

Simple solultion: Tie Player Happyness to Edge Refreshment.

After the run, did you go out, get a few drinks with friends, and have fun? Sweet, have a point of edge back. Take a weeklong cruise to wind down? Have it all back, and a bonus one. That kind of thing.

Now your powergamers have a reason to play like real people.

Tthe problem I see here is that players can trade a solely short-term punishment of no Edge refreshed for the next run for the longterm benefit of more implants.

I also prefer an actual mechanic, rather than having them guess at what I'm satisfied with. Do you have some set numbers for your system, or do you just make a judgement call based on their downtime activities?

[Smokeskin]

Uhm... isn't lifestyle covered by... lifestyle...?

Well yes, but there can still be some flavor to it - and you still have people living on Low lifestyle to save money for implants.

[Lanlaorn]

Fun money can be spend on
- lifestyle, bars, vacations, investments (I want players to live like real people, and flesh out their characters with enjoying themselves, or saving money for the future, or whatever their dreams and desires are)
- replacements (this is to give the players the option to wreck or sacrifice their stuff or get rid off evidence on runs without getting punished for it)
- consumables (ammo, missiles, etc. - that's also fun!)

Emphasis mine.

Doesn't your point right there conflict with trying to force people to not save money for new cyberware? Because I certainly know as a shadowrunner cyberware would be both the dream and desire and a form of investment, investing in making myself a better shadowrunner.

Things like going out to bars, etc. is covered by the Entertainment portion of everyone's Lifestyle. Unless you have a group of squatters they're already paying for the things you want them to pay for. How many thousands of dollars a month do real people spend on bars and whatever anyway? I know I certainly don't spend 80%+ of my income on "fun".

[toturi]

Simple solultion: Tie Player Happyness to Edge Refreshment.

After the run, did you go out, get a few drinks with friends, and have fun? Sweet, have a point of edge back. Take a weeklong cruise to wind down? Have it all back, and a bonus one. That kind of thing.

Now your powergamers have a reason to play like real people.

Which kind of real people? After a tough exercise, all I want to do is to lie in bed and sleep till it is time for dinner. Some guys I know unwind reading in a library.

[Doc Chaos]

I guess I'm lucky. My players always upgraded their lifestyle as soon as possible after I started describing the LOW lifestyle their characters had in detail. Rationed water and power, the neighborhood, gangs in the vicinity... they couldn't wait to get paid to get the hell out of those holes!

[The Jopp]

What if their versions of fun is heavy cybernetic bodymods and gunshows?

[Xenefungus]

What i would find interesting would be a seperate currency for implants, weapons and all the other potentially game-changing stuff we dont want our runners to have too much of too soon. Lets call it CrunchNuyen (CN) for now.

With such a system, the gamemaster could differentiate between CN and classic Nuyen (Y). So if he wanted his players to actually get better we would pay them with more CN, and if he wanted them to have some fun just give them Nuyen to toss around.

Now what we need of course is an ingame justification for this. To me it seems that most of the game-changing stuff is illegal in nature. So why not say that black markets did indeed invent another currency to circumvent all the hassle involved with nuyen (banks can track them etc..).

The only thing left to deal with would be people exchanging CN for Y, something we of course do not want. Any Ideas to prevent this, or general comments about this suggestion? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Inpu]

My general rule as a GM is to never force a player to do anything. Entice them.

EDIT:

What i would find interesting would be a seperate currency for implants, weapons and all the other potentially game-changing stuff we dont want our runners to have too much of too soon. Lets call it CrunchNuyen (CN) for now.

With such a system, the gamemaster could differentiate between CN and classic Nuyen (Y). So if he wanted his players to actually get better we would pay them with more CN, and if he wanted them to have some fun just give them Nuyen to toss around.

Now what we need of course is an ingame justification for this. To me it seems that most of the game-changing stuff is illegal in nature. So why not say that black markets did indeed invent another currency to circumvent all the hassle involved with nuyen (banks can track them etc..).

The only thing left to deal with would be people exchanging CN for Y, something we of course do not want. Any Ideas to prevent this, or general comments about this suggestion? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Corp Scrip does that just fine, depending on the Corp in question.

[Smokeskin]

Things like going out to bars, etc. is covered by the Entertainment portion of everyone's Lifestyle. Unless you have a group of squatters they're already paying for the things you want them to pay for. How many thousands of dollars a month do real people spend on bars and whatever anyway? I know I certainly don't spend 80%+ of my income on "fun".

If you look at what Fun covers, it is almost everything real people spend their money on - housing, vacation, cars, furniture, pension, clothes, etc. Once people have their education out the way, people don't spend much money on improving their work ability anymore.

[Inpu]

Once people have their education out the way, people don't spend much money on improving their work ability anymore.

I'll contest that statement: a good many people get used to their work, eventually taking pride in it. Especially those in the security sector, or those who are in the criminal element. Further, for the criminal elements such as Shadowrunners, it is a matter of both fun and survival. Better guns mean better potential payout, means more money to drag yourself out of the barrens.

[Doc Chaos]

If you look at what Fun covers, it is almost everything real people spend their money on - housing, vacation, cars, furniture, pension, clothes, etc.

So... its what the players paid for with the lifestyle cost.

[Smokeskin]

What i would find interesting would be a seperate currency for implants, weapons and all the other potentially game-changing stuff we dont want our runners to have too much of too soon. Lets call it CrunchNuyen (CN) for now.

With such a system, the gamemaster could differentiate between CN and classic Nuyen (Y). So if he wanted his players to actually get better we would pay them with more CN, and if he wanted them to have some fun just give them Nuyen to toss around.

Now what we need of course is an ingame justification for this. To me it seems that most of the game-changing stuff is illegal in nature. So why not say that black markets did indeed invent another currency to circumvent all the hassle involved with nuyen (banks can track them etc..).

The only thing left to deal with would be people exchanging CN for Y, something we of course do not want. Any Ideas to prevent this, or general comments about this suggestion? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This is exactly what I'm trying to do. But instead of actual currencies, I'm enforcing a "karma tax" mechanic on CN.

IIRC in GURPS Cyberpunk, even after chargen you couldn't just pay to have implants installed, you had to pay "experience points" (can't remember the actual name) for them. The balance reasoning for this is obvious, though it does stretch believability a little.

[Smokeskin]

So... its what the players paid for with the lifestyle cost.

More or less, yes. What I'm trying to avoid is giving the powerplayer an advantage in implants and gear because he's living a Low lifestyle while another team member lives on High lifestyle because that fits his character.

Note I'm also planning on letting Fun money be used on wrecked gear, expensive consumables like missiles, etc. Giving players money to burn on runs, rather than having them focused on saving money for use on character improvement, seems like a good idea (even though that is often handled by the Johnson paying for such expenses).

[Inpu]

More or less, yes. What I'm trying to avoid is giving the powerplayer an advantage in implants and gear because he's living a Low lifestyle while another team member lives on High lifestyle because that fits his character.

Note I'm also planning on letting Fun money be used on wrecked gear, expensive consumables like missiles, etc. Giving players money to burn on runs, rather than having them focused on saving money for use on character improvement, seems like a good idea (even though that is often handled by the Johnson paying for such expenses).

Another way to check whether or not they have an advantage is to see what their lifestyle security is like. Most Low will have awful security. If you give them reasons to want higher lifestyles, they'll gladly pay for it.

[Summerstorm]

WEAPONS ARE FUN.

But yeah: I let them only regenerate edge when they take some time off, chill with some friends or go to vacation. If they keep on researching, get implants, or just do one run after another... they will run out. I pretty much ORDER them to take two days off after a horrible "adventure".

But getting them to get a high lifestyle is hard. Some players do, because they like their characters to have it... others.., Well let's say: We had once a guy where we joked that he is either polishing his guns or sleeping with his guns in his hands in a coffin.. WAITING... LURKING... to get a call from a fixer or the others.

[sabs]

Low Lifestyle should suck so make it suck.

Have them get home after a long run, to find their 'home' has been gutted by thiefs/gangs.
Lets say they went to logos for 2 months, have them come home to someone else living in their home.

If it's a hacker, whose hacking from home. Roll his necessities lifestyle dice. Maybe on 0 hits he loses power in the middle of the run. On a glitch he loses power for X # of rounds, on a crit glitch he loses power for X hours?

He comes home and his stash of ammo is gone.

There's tons of options, for making low/squat/no suck.

What you can do is something like:

Security Lifestyle=threshhold on a crime roll.
Your crime roll could be: 6-zone rating

so if you have a low lifestyle in the barrens.
You have 6 dice Threshhold 2, that's almost a guarantee

Z-Zone/Barrens: 0
minimum security: 1
Low Security: 2
Medium Security: 3
High Security: 4
Luxury Security: 5

And yes, that means that a Luxury lifestyle in a Luxury Zone would be 1 dice with a threshold of 6.
This seems fair to me, because basically they should never be the victims of random crime.

[Doc Chaos]

If it's a hacker, whose hacking from home. Roll his necessities lifestyle dice. Maybe on 0 hits he loses power in the middle of the run. On a glitch he loses power for X # of rounds, on a crit glitch he loses power for X hours?

Doesn't really work that way, Commlinks run on internal power. But instead of power outage maybe there are not enough nodes in his signal vicinity to support ultrahigh bandwidth and he's seriously slowed down by the lag?