Shadowrun 1 v Shadowrun 2 v Shadowrun 3 v Shadowrun 4, Which is your favourite ?? Options

[Shinobi Killfist]

They still have as much flavor difference, they just don't have as much crunch difference.

Yeah but just how texture effects the flavor of food. Rules crunch effect the flavor of play.

[tete]

@ Karoline, I sit corrected (because I'm sitting and not standing lol) you are right though hermetic mentor spirits still boggle my mind.

[Minchandre]

I played 3rd a lot, and 2nd an eensy bit. Mechanically, I like 4th the best. It's much more streamlined and easier to play (and especially to make characters, though that might just be because of the presence of spreadsheets).

Fluffwise, I think I like 4th best also: I enjoy the lighter, more post-cyberpunk tone of 4th. Plus, I like that the feel has been updated so it actually feels like the future instead of the future of the 80s. I realize that was a very controversial decision, but I like it.

[kjones]

3rd edition has the SCIRE.

-k "only ever played 4th" jones

[Karoline]

@ Karoline, I sit corrected (because I'm sitting and not standing lol) you are right though hermetic mentor spirits still boggle my mind.

I generally view mentor spirits for hermetics less as mentor spirits and more as ideologies. For a shaman, yeah, Wolf is walking around with you and telling you to eat that guy. For a Hermetic, there isn't a spirit around, it is simply that that is their personality, and it is strong enough to manifest itself as a bonus (At the cost of 5 BP (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )

The game always seemed a bit unclear to me if a mentor spirit was an actual spirit that followed you around (but you know, never actually helped you) or was simply a mental projection, or was a spirit that would contact you remotely (explaining why it never helped), or what, so, given the nature of magic, I figure it could be any of these things, and what it is is based more on tradition. For a Hermetic it is simply their personality (Or some aspect of it, perhaps even a repressed part) manifesting itself as a bonus, and for a Shaman it is an actual spirit that wanders around with them, or talks to them occasional or whatever.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Played them all, and I have to say that, Hands Down, I prefer SR4A... It has a MUCH Cleaner system all the way around...and the fluff from previous Editions is not gone, the world has just moved past it is all... that fluff STILL exists... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Runner Smurf]

I've been playing and running games since 2nd edition (though I may have blown up the Space Needle in a 1st edition tournament...), and I must say that I really like 4th edition, but I'd really like to play a 3.75 edition. Oddly, I'd like to do the same with the Other Game as well.

4th Edition changes that I like:
- The wireless rules. You can actually run deckers/hackers as part of a regular game session. The VR 2.0 rules tried, and did a lot, but those rules (and their successors in 3rd edition) still were too slow.
- Reworked vehicles. Greatly increasing the Body and Armor dice makes them a lot more...vehicle like than in the old editions. Mind you, the vehicle rules are still a mess, but they are still an improvement.
- Deflation. I like that they dropped the price tags for things.
- Core rules include more stuff, like initiation and the like. The core book is a much more complete game than previous editions.
- The wireless rules. It bears mentioning twice.
- Deck construction is gone, along with the SOTA rules. Sweet Ghost, those were annoying as hell. I know what they were trying to do, and Unwired has an ugly echo of them in it, but they were a pain to actually use. Much like the decking rules in general.

Things I don't like:
- I miss the hermetic/shamanic magical split with the difference between elementals and spirits. I think a lot of the spirit balance issues I think come back to removing that split. It also was a fairly key piece of "fluff" that had wonderfully varied in-game effects. Before, a team really liked having a hermetic and a shaman, now...it's just two mages.
- The vehicle stuff. (Yes, I'm contradicting myself.) But they ended up dropping a lot of the detail that really brought the vehicles to life...and provided useful information. Like how many people can fit in a vehicle. Range/endurance/entry/exit things didn't often come up, but it was really nice to have that info on hand. Don't miss the "design from scratch" rules though...
- I miss the combat and spell pools. We lost the whole "I bet my life that this shot drops that enemy," effect they provided.

Still on the fence:
- I'm not sure if I like the new core mechanic. I miss exploding sixes and variable target numbers, and the new probability distributions don't work for me. Maybe I just need to play more to get an instinct for the odds like I had with 2nd and 3rd edition. But it still feels like the extremes don't work: it's too easy for unskilled folks to get all hits, and for really skilled folks to get none. There's nothing like what was in the earlier editions: having a target number of 14, rolling three dice and actually making it. Now, even if something is really hard, it reduces (at the extreme) to rolling one die and having a 1 in 3 chance...or having absolutely no chance at all.
- Technomancers. I never liked the otaku, both from story and from rules perspectives, and TMs don't feel right to me either. I understand the idea, and it's ballsy as hell, but it's just never clicked for me. Maybe I just haven't seen one played well. Maybe if they hadn't been in the core sourcebook, and then a later sourcebook said, "and now...technomancers appear!" I don't know.

So, I'm on the fence. If I had most of 4th edition, with some of the old magic rules/fluff and the 3rd edition core mechanic, I'd be happy as a clam that wasn't in the Gulf of Mexico (er, Aztlan).

[Karoline]

- The vehicle stuff. (Yes, I'm contradicting myself.) But they ended up dropping a lot of the detail that really brought the vehicles to life...and provided useful information. Like how many people can fit in a vehicle. Range/endurance/entry/exit things didn't often come up, but it was really nice to have that info on hand. Don't miss the "design from scratch" rules though...

They reprovided this stuff in arsenal. Vehicles now say how many people they can hold, and there is a general operation time slapped to all vehicles (from which a range can be found based on speed).

- I miss the combat and spell pools. We lost the whole "I bet my life that this shot drops that enemy," effect they provided.

I have to admit this was one thing I very much liked about 3rd. It provided a 'you can be good on average, but you have to put it on the line to be great' mechanic, where is now your character is just always great or always good or always bad or whatever. It's removal does help streamline play a bit though as you don't have to keep track of how many dice you have in the pool.

- I'm not sure if I like the new core mechanic. I miss exploding sixes and variable target numbers, and the new probability distributions don't work for me. Maybe I just need to play more to get an instinct for the odds like I had with 2nd and 3rd edition. But it still feels like the extremes don't work: it's too easy for unskilled folks to get all hits, and for really skilled folks to get none. There's nothing like what was in the earlier editions: having a target number of 14, rolling three dice and actually making it. Now, even if something is really hard, it reduces (at the extreme) to rolling one die and having a 1 in 3 chance...or having absolutely no chance at all.

Generally a difficult roll will be the result of a high threshold, not a massive DP penalty, in which case it works out very similar to the 'attempting to hit a 14 on 3 dice' Maybe not quite as much on the edge because you only have one roll instead of having to pick up the 6 and roll again, but it is once again a matter of streamlining gameplay. You don't have to pick out and reroll sixes any more, you just roll your dice once and that is it. Also, I'd have to disagree with it being too easy for someone with a low DP to get all hits. A DP of 4 only has a 0.15% chance of getting all hits. A DP of 8 only has a 0.00024% chance of getting no hits.

- Technomancers. I never liked the otaku, both from story and from rules perspectives, and TMs don't feel right to me either. I understand the idea, and it's ballsy as hell, but it's just never clicked for me. Maybe I just haven't seen one played well. Maybe if they hadn't been in the core sourcebook, and then a later sourcebook said, "and now...technomancers appear!" I don't know.

I very much like the idea of Technomancers, I'm somewhat less impressed with the execution, since they largely came out as hackers that just don't use a commlink instead of the notable difference you get between say a mage and someone with a gun.

[wilver]

It's been so long that I've played 1 & 2 that they meld together in my mind as the same edition -- and the one I played the most of. A few years past before I played/ran a few campaigns of 3, and I didn't notice any substantial change in game play. We always had a page or two of house rules that modded them anyway.

I have yet to play 4, but am trying to get a game started to see how it holds up. I was never a fan of technomancy, and will probably yank that for a start.

[Cain]

1st was my first truly groundbreaking game. I learned to be a good GM from reading Harlequin.

2nd was 1st ed, with many of the rules fixed and insanely better setting material. The only thing I thought was truly borked was the stupid rigger rules. (Maneuver Score, I'm talking to you!)

SR3 fixed what needed to be fixed in SR2, while leaving everything that made Shadowrun cool intact. The setting material wasn't the same, but you could port everything you liked over, easily enough. So, despite the fact that they kept the stupid rigger rules, SR3 gets my vote.

SR4 and 4.5... I really wanted to like them, but they're just not really Shadowrun anymore. Too many of the cool setting and mechanical elements were removed, in favor of a d6 NWoD clone. Unlike Tete, I don't have a love/hate relationship with SR4.5 as much as I have a "meh" relationship. It just doesn't set my brain afire the way that previous editions of SR do. Oh, and for the record? SR4.5 is basically SR4, rewritten by Dumpshock. Just about all the changes that help the game were debated to death here on Dumpshock.

[tifunkalicious]

Played 2nd long ago with my older brothers as a little kid, and have since jumped to 4A missions and my own home game. The newest edition of That Old Standard seems to have clean rules covered, so I enjoy the grit and GM interpretation that SR provides. 4A's rules are 'cleaner' but the little things can matter to a roleplayer. All in all though, I enjoy 4A a lot a lot a lot but I miss a bit of that 80's haircut decker flavor.

[Snow_Fox]

3

[Martin_DeVries_I...]

Been playing since 2nd Edition, here. And I think 3rd is still my favorite. It felt more polished than 2nd ed, and the material put out for it was some of my favorite. I still haven't played or GMed 4th enough to have a feel for if I dislike the rules much, although I don't mind the setting changes much. (I mean, I dislike that we essentially lost 5 years, but I just roll with it. Can't be helped. Things like manatech and wireless matrix are far less problematic for me).

Fourth would probably rate higher for me if there was just more of a release schedule. CGL has put out relatively little product, which would be okay if the product quality was higher, but... frankly, it isn't. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Platinum]

I am a militant 2ed ludite. I am running 2nd still with friends, and looking to run more online games.

What was so cool about 2nd:
initiative -- speed ruled
bioware limited by body
grounding
astral movement limited by organic matter
developers like Tom Dowd and Nigel Findley
Shadowrun novels - 2XS, fade to black
The timing of 2nd edition was perfect it was when tech in the books was turning into something real.
New material that wasn't rehashed from old material
Wireless was available but not absurdly pervasive

Caveats:
Don't get any players looking to run riggers
Use VR2 rules for deckers with some modifications. They function quickly.
I run matrix, astral and physical all at the same time so there is little or no pizza time.

Didn't like 3rd, I thought it nerfed street sams too much. Never tried 4th, and can't bring myself to try.

[Blade]

I've started with SR2, GMed and played SR3 and I currently GM and play SR4.

I can't say much about SR2: our GM ignored many rules (including the dice pools, it was hard and deadly) and the pink mohawk/cyberpunk atmosphere might have been made easier by the fact that we were young and didn't really care about the world's consistency or realism. Orks and trolls were dumb and liked to make a lot of noise and going in through the front door guns blazing was an acceptable strategy.

I've played a lot of SR3 and had a lot of fun with low to middle end characters but had trouble with higher-level characters. I also had some gripes with some of the rules (and how people abused them). As for the setting, even if most of the pictures had lost the 80s feel of SR2, it felt like the same, except a bit more mature than we used to play.

SR4 corrected some but not all of the issues I had with the rules. It's far from perfect but it's the best system for me. I haven't felt a lot of change in the setting and atmosphere in my games.

[Smokeskin]

I for one miss rolling to hit for each and every bullet when firing full auto.

[Mystweaver]

For me its definately 3. Played 2 and read 1. Only heard bits about 4. Generally don't like the idea of a maximum limit in skills. Otherwise the "hits" system sounds reasonable and very White Wolf.

As for fluff, 1 & 2 had all the best stuff with runner comments, adverts and lots of good visuals. Best book of them all had to be the Seattle Sourcebook (not New Seattle), purely because it was the most used book for my group.

Been playing the same SR 3campaign (with breaks for other systems) since 1999. No chance we are converting our characters now anyway. Our GM however is still getting the SR 4 books & adventures purely for fluff material. AR has been introduced into 2064 already... Deus is still out there so no Technomancers but we also have Earthdawn tied in heavily too...

Good times... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[hobgoblin]

I´m a second edition man regarding the fluff, and a fourth edition man regarding the rules. I miss the metaplot.

the writers have been preoccupied with bringing the crunch up to speed with the new rules system (and the delays in publishing from certain economic issues didnt help) but i think the recent corp guide is a nice indication that metaplot will be back as more books gets published.

[Smed]

Third edition for rules and second edition for fluff. The fourth edition rule set isn't bad, but I think the fluff has fallen off greatly in quality since third edition. I play a little 4th edition now, only because its the only SR game I have access to, and probably wouldn't be playing Shadowrun at all if I hadn't played the earlier editions.

[Warlordtheft]

Overall it was SR4 for me. Mainly because of the streamlined rules. I've played 1st through 4th, but my problem with 3rd was that the rules crunch was a bear (side note-the fluff from 3rd was some of the best). If the sourcebooks catalyst have put out so far are any indication, I think SR4 will eventually have enough fluff books to be comparable to older editions (I give it another couple of years).

1st edition-hey it was cool, but like the initial version of the game there was room for imporvement (damage codes were somewhat wonkey).
2nd edition-fixed the damage codes, eventually improved the matrix.
3rd edition-didn't play much, still had all the books. Had rules for just about everything (a boone and a curse)

I'm suprised they didn't introduce an Ares Predator IVA in the SR4A book--guess that means catalyst does not consider SR4A a new edition, just SR4 with a patch. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)


PS: I do miss combat pools though.

[Medicineman]

I don't like SR4. Period. I think the whole System and Fluff are kinda dumb.

Same to You Chummer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I like SR4A (German Ed 'cause all the erratta are included) most and SR3 least.
I started with SR2 and it has a certain Nostalgia, but SR4A is my favourite
the only thing I'm really missing are the dicepools

with his favourite Dance
Medicineman

[Semerkhet]

Been playing on and off since I picked up 1st edition corebook at the '89 GenCon. I learned to GM with Shadowrun and I ran nothing else until the mid-90s. I really enjoyed 1st edition and 2nd edition but I always had problems with the way the sub-systems didn't play well together and the wonkiness of the core die mechanic. Third edition cleaned some things up but deckers were still more trouble than they were worth. I've loved most of the fluff in all editions; except for SURGE, which can go DIAF. I believe that 4th edition has the best overall rule set, even if I don't like every single change. I also like the thematic and technological updating of the setting. I don't miss cyberdecks and I have little nostalgia for 80's cyberpunk overall. It was great back in SR1 and SR2 but by SR3 I felt the setting was getting creaky. Fourth edition addressed many of those problems for me.

So, while I've enjoyed all of the editions, SR4A is the best overall package.

[IcyCool]

3rd edition is still my favorite. The only thing I don't really like about it is the Decking system. Haven't seen much need to move to 4th yet.

[Kumo]

I started with 2nd edition... Loved the setting and fluff, hated the rules. Some ideas were interesting (like combat pools), but they also made a game slow - it's one of major reasons why SR didn't get popular in my country. I never played 3rd edition, but fluff in those books that I know is awesome.
So my favourite is SR4/SR4A - best rules IMO (good for new players), AR is a great tool and fluff is still nice.

[Karoline]

Overall I'm not seeing much love for 1st edition, the one that started it all. Ah well, such is the way of things when shiny new stuff is available.