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> Astral Projection, Attacking Foci
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post Mar 1 2004, 11:59 PM
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Now I know that this is plausible.

However here is the question. Can you dispell something on a sustaining foci from being astrally projected.

Yes making the PCs feel they are perfectly secure, and then well. It is always funny, to watch my players die.

As a note I have declared war on my inferior players, those that want to die. Have fun, and remember "Live and Learn, Die and Forget, unless you are an expert system."
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Herald of Verjig...
post Mar 2 2004, 12:01 AM
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Active foci are dual natured, so you can dispell the enchantments in them from the astral.

[edit]well, it isn't dispelling, it is more of "shattering the magical side of the focus" and uses astral combat rules
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RedmondLarry
post Mar 2 2004, 12:02 AM
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The magician attempting the dispel has to be on the same plane (astral or physical) as the spell itself (SR3.184, "Dispelling", 2nd sentence).

You can, however, attack an active sustaining focus.

See This Topic from last week for more info.
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TheScamp
post Mar 2 2004, 01:39 AM
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QUOTE
The magician attempting the dispel has to be on the same plane (astral or physical) as the spell itself (SR3.184, "Dispelling", 2nd sentence).

Well, technically you need to be on the same plane as the target of the spell.

But yeah, by all means pop the focus.
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RedmondLarry
post Mar 2 2004, 02:58 AM
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TheScamp, I read the 2nd sentence to mean you have to be on the same plane as the spell, but I see how you could read it to mean that you have to be on the same plane as the target. Very interesting.
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post Mar 2 2004, 02:59 AM
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Alright next question about astral and dual naturedness, and noticing things.

Person is trying to make themselves invisible on the astral. Is there anyway.

If you say masking are you sure. To me that seems to be a disguise type thing, you look different from what you are. Like it masks you. Not you are invisible.

As much help as possible, if you can.
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RedmondLarry
post Mar 2 2004, 03:03 AM
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Nope, can't be invisible on the astral. One option is to mask yourself to look mundane and astrally move across the room as if you were in a physical body. Legs striding and arms swinging. A physical entity won't see you, and an astral entity has to look closely to realize there is no physical body there.

The alternative is to stealth around on the astral plane, hiding behind opaque things like walls, ceilings, and floors; or hiding your astral form in the midst of dozens of living bodies in some crowd.
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Kanada Ten
post Mar 2 2004, 03:20 AM
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Casting invisibility, then using masking to hide the spell aura should make you invisible from all sight... The book seems fairly clear that invisibility makes you invisible on the astral but that the spell aura gives one away (regardless of how one plays it).
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post Mar 2 2004, 03:33 AM
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That is one impressive way to read the line:
QUOTE
Their aura is still visible to astral perception.
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John Campbell
post Mar 2 2004, 03:34 AM
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QUOTE (Kanada Ten)
Casting invisibility, then using masking to hide the spell aura should make you invisible from all sight... The book seems fairly clear that invisibility makes you invisible on the astral but that the spell aura gives one away (regardless of how one plays it).

The book actually explicitly states that Invisibility does not make you invisible to astral perception.

So, no, that doesn't work.
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post Mar 2 2004, 03:58 AM
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So I guess that is truly a suicide mission for even that NPC, ohhh well. It still will be fun.
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John Campbell
post Mar 2 2004, 04:07 AM
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If it's a suicide mission, have you considered having your NPC send a spirit or elemental or the like to do it? Expendable underlings are just made for suicide missions...
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Kanada Ten
post Mar 2 2004, 04:26 AM
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QUOTE (John Campbell @ Mar 1 2004, 10:34 PM)
QUOTE (Kanada Ten @ Mar 1 2004, 10:20 PM)
Casting invisibility, then using masking to hide the spell aura should make you invisible from all sight... The book seems fairly clear that invisibility makes you invisible on the astral but that the spell aura gives one away (regardless of how one plays it).

The book actually explicitly states that Invisibility does not make you invisible to astral perception.

Actually it explicity states their aura isn't [invisible].

[edit]And the only way to make the aura of an invisible person look mundane is to make it invisible. YMMV[/edit]
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post Mar 2 2004, 04:30 AM
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QUOTE (Kanada Ten)
Actually it explicity states their aura isn't.

You must have an odd printing of the book, because my quote is right out of the first paragraph on invisibility.
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Kanada Ten
post Mar 2 2004, 04:33 AM
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QUOTE
You must have an odd printing of the book...

I accept your statement and use it to show the book states only that their aura isn't [invisible].
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TheScamp
post Mar 2 2004, 05:49 AM
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QUOTE
TheScamp, I read the 2nd sentence to mean you have to be on the same plane as the spell, but I see how you could read it to mean that you have to be on the same plane as the target.

"The magician must be able to see the target of the spell and must be on the same plane."

The rule is talking about the "target," or more broadly, "target of the spell." I'm not sure how you get the spell itself worked into it as it's never mentioned, but hey, read it how you like.

QUOTE
And the only way to make the aura of an invisible person look mundane is to make it invisible.

Or it could, you know, look like a mundane person's aura. Having a sustained spell on you doesn't suddenly make your aura into that of an Awakened.

QUOTE
I accept your statement and use it to show the book states only that their aura isn't [invisible].

Fantastic. Then again, the point is completely moot, as the person's aura is the part of them you see from the Astral, anyway.
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Kanada Ten
post Mar 2 2004, 05:54 AM
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QUOTE
...as the person's aura is the part of them you see from the Astral...

I disagree. An astrally perceiving person can see anything regardless of its aura status. They see the ground, the wall, the car even if they are physically blind despite the fact none of those things have auras.
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Zazen
post Mar 2 2004, 06:19 AM
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What you say doesn't actually disagree with what you quoted. Yes, nonliving things have no aura, but living things DO have auras and that's what you see from the astral.
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Kanada Ten
post Mar 2 2004, 06:23 AM
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You see them and their aura (this is explicit in the section quoted by Herald).
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post Mar 2 2004, 06:34 AM
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I will also mention that you cannot mask an aura into a non-state. The closest you can get is to make your aura look like that of an unawakened creature. Any competent astral security would investigate a roaming mundane aura with no physical component. Which means you still have to use stealthy choices of where to go, even when invisible and masked, to avoid astral detection.
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Kanada Ten
post Mar 2 2004, 06:39 AM
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QUOTE
I will also mention that you cannot mask an aura into a non-state.

I think that's a matter of interpretation, personally. Though I might just have to house rule.

If I cast invisibility on a tank, and then mask the spell, I could drive it around without anyone seeing it on either plane. I don't think letting a mage do it is that big of a deal.

Either way, it gives me a great idea for smuggling: invisible trucks.
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Zazen
post Mar 2 2004, 06:58 AM
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QUOTE (Kanada Ten)
You see them and their aura (this is explicit in the section quoted by Herald).

But it doesn't say anything of the sort!
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Kanada Ten
post Mar 2 2004, 07:13 AM
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I think it does, but you could always quote it and prove me wrong.

Besides, it's silly the way your making it seem. "You see an aura and then the person gets shot, suddenly the aura is gone and a dead body appears." Sorry, I don't buy it. Auras are around magical items and living beings, they don't override them.
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Zazen
post Mar 2 2004, 07:53 AM
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Override what? The faded grey appearance of nonliving, nonmagical things?

I don't understand what you think is supposed to be "underneath" the aura. The aura is what you look like on the astral, that's all. It's not a set of astral technicolor underwear that you wear over your real body :P
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John Campbell
post Mar 2 2004, 08:12 AM
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QUOTE (SR3 p.195)
Invisibility
...
This spell makes the subject invisible to normal vision. The subject is completely tangible and detectable by the other senses. Their aura is still visible to astral perception.


Non-living, non-magical objects don't have auras. However, (per p.171) they can be assensed. They don't "glow" the way living and magical objects do, but they are "visible" on the astral. Since Invisibility affects only "normal vision", and assensing is not, by any reasonable definition, normal vision (and it's even debatable whether it's really "vision" at all), but, rather, one of those "other senses", Invisibility will not interfere with detecting objects, living or no, via assensing.

So, yes, the scenario you present is silly. The actual scenario goes more like so:
You assense, but cannot see, a body with a living aura around it. It gets shot, and the aura disappears as it dies, and turns into a dead body, which you still cannot see (unless, of course, the shootee was the one sustaining the Invisibility spell), but can still assense just fine.
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