Military Helmets and Sensors Options

[Reg06]

Is this right?
1) I buy a kabuto helmet.
2) The helmet has 4 capacity to put sensors in.
3) I throw the helmet away and get some goggles that have 6 capacity and a microphone that has capacity 6, because I actually want to see and hear some things.

[Badmoodguy88]

The system is a bit simplified but it makes sense that an object squeezed into another object would be compact as possible and have no room for additional modifications inside of the modification. Something that has it's own case has room between its self and the case.

These aren't Mobius goggles. Capacity 6 goggles with 5 modifications and capacity 6 goggles inside them, with with 5 modifications and capacity 6 goggles inside them.

[Reg06]

That makes little to no sense.
So if I want a broad range of sensor options, fullscale, top of the line military helmets are not the way to go?
Can I put on a military helmet and some goggles?

[Lansdren]

Think of it as the difference between a modular milspec equipment against specilised single use equipment. Standard milspec is better then the normal gear but it is not specialised where as if you spend the money you can get something custom and specialised which is better.

[Badmoodguy88]

Well that and if you add electronics to a helmet they are just going to be wires and circuit boards, maybe no independent power source either. Think about those little spy cams made to fit hidden into other objects, they are just a circuit boards with a camera soldiered to it. The tech may change but I think that mechanic may stay steady.

That makes little to no sense.
So if I want a broad range of sensor options, fullscale, top of the line military helmets are not the way to go?
Can I put on a military helmet and some goggles?

I see what you are saying now. I guess it might make more sense for there to me more room in that helmet but, game balance issues and all...

I could see the helmet being warn with goggles. People do it all the time for helmets that do not cover the entire face.

[Dakka Dakka]

Or you could just drop the optional rule from p. 44 Arsenal and put in whatever you like. Barring that, as a GM I wouldn't mind using part of the armor's capacity for the electronics. After all helmet and armor are supposed to be worn together.

I could see the helmet being warn with goggles. People do it all the time for helmets that do not cover the entire face.

Ah the good old helmet over glasses over contacts routine. While totally tricked out contacts were silly, this is only a bit less silly. BTW the MilSpec helmet must at least cover the eyes, otherwise optional vision enhancements would not make sense. The accompanying picture also shows a visored helmet.

[Yerameyahu]

There's no way you can wear goggles and a milspec (full face, sealed, armored, streamlined) helmet. Just get contacts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stingray]

..or just add Cybereyes and then wear helmet.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Psh, spend essence? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Stingray]

Psh, spend essence? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

for a non-magical,non-technomancer..who cares about essence..

[Kraegor]

I would say you can use goggles (or a monacle/glasses etc) with the helmet, but the HUD from the helmet would not be compatible with the goggles on being worn.

So your upgrades should be amplified hearing or something if you want to put anything in the helmet, as the HUD from the helmet and the goggles wouldn't be compatible together.

You could also just throw away the helmet.

[Sengir]

The capacity rules for outfits are certainly not the high point of SR rules. I suggest replacing them with a solid rule of thumb (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Reg06]

The capacity rules for outfits are certainly not the high point of SR rules. I suggest replacing them with a solid rule of thumb (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Which would be an option if this weren't SRM.

[Dakka Dakka]

Which would be an option if this weren't SRM.

AFAIK the Missions don't use any optional rules. The Capacity rules for armor are optional. Have they been explicitly included?

[Karoline]

AFAIK the Missions don't use any optional rules. The Capacity rules for armor are optional. Have they been explicitly included?

I thought they were explicit inclusions, specifically to stop people with a coat that was non-conductive, chemical resistant, fire resistant, had shock frills, and several other things. Basically making it more enhancement than armor.

[Dakka Dakka]

I haven't found anything explicitly including the optional armor rules but the Shadowrun Missions: New York City Character Creation and Transfer Guide says the following:

I really like XX from Tweaking the Rules, can we use it?
Shadowrun Missions are run with the standard rules and most recent errata. Any rules noted as an “Optional Rule” are not used in the official campaign. In a nutshell, no.

Is the Missions campaign using any of the advanced rules from Arsenal?
Missions GMs are encouraged to use the Demolition and Substance Abuse rules presented in Arsenal as appropriate to the various Missions scenarios. However, the “More Ways to Die” chapter goes into more detail than the campaign needs for public play; as a consequence, we do not use that in normal Missions games. If a GM is running a home game, and the players agree to it, then they are more than welcome to use that material. These rules are not used for convention and other public games, because they tend to extend the game session beyond our usual allotted time frames.

So if there are doubts what is used in Missions, you should look into the Mission forum. Maybe this question has already been answered, otherwise ask it there.

[edit]Just found it, the question is already there.
So yes you can have warm clothing without trauma plates, even in Missions.[/edit]

[svenftw]

Is this right?
1) I buy a kabuto helmet.
2) The helmet has 4 capacity to put sensors in.
3) I throw the helmet away and get some goggles that have 6 capacity and a microphone that has capacity 6, because I actually want to see and hear some things.

But you have to remember, that Kabuto helmet comes with some enhancements already installed, and then it has 4 capacity above that. It comes with a camera, flare compensation, image link, and smartlink. It also has a built-in device rating 4 commlink.

If you put just the enhancements (obviously the commlink is special equipment) into rating 6 goggles, you'd have 2 capacity left instead of 4.

[Karoline]

Actually it would have 3. "camera' isn't a vision enhancement, and is in fact a separate piece of equipment, which can take its own vision enhancements. So you get 1 free capacity slot over goggles, and an integrated commlink, and an integrated camera which can then accept even more vision enhancements (4 I think?)

[svenftw]

Yeah, I know, it's just hard to reconcile pre-capacity equipment with Arsenal equipment in a straight comparison.

Another thing to consider is that the "capacity" for helmets is much more versatile than the "capacity" for goggles. Goggles, like Karoline pointed out, can't mount things like cameras and microphones where as a helmet *can* mount sensors like that and each of them can be enhanced as well.

[Yerameyahu]

If you have trodes, the goggles *are* cameras. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But yes.

[Reg06]

AFAIK the Missions don't use any optional rules. The Capacity rules for armor are optional. Have they been explicitly included?

Are the Capacity rules for military armor? Milspec armor has the Capacity in the stat line, which the lighter armor doesn't, which leads me to believe the optional Capacity rules are for armor that doesn't come with a Capacity stat.

Nevermind. I see the optional Capacity rule only applies to armor suits. I'll check on the SRM forum, but this might mean milspec armor can use every enhancement.

[Saint Sithney]

Goggles can't mount a Camera Neutralizer sensor.

Advantage -> helmet.

[Yerameyahu]

I thought you needed a vehicle for that. Yeah, capacity 5, doesn't the helmet have 4?

[Dumori]

AFAIK the Missions don't use any optional rules. The Capacity rules for armor are optional. Have they been explicitly included?

Not that I know of only the milspec base amros not helms have RAW capcity all other can add what ever if you have the nuyen IIRC

[Dumori]

Goggles cant carry wirecutter or medplant or inbuilt drink storage v. handy though mybe less in most SR game but having a ltr or 2 of water/rehydradtion energy-drink could be help full in more long term wearing of the helmet (though you'd have to house rule in the storage not that it's any more out there than other hemletmount items).