Burning Edge, Is it spent? Options

[Traul]

And here comes the stupid rule question of the day (insert recorded crowd cheers here).

Suppose I have an Edge of 5 and have already spent 1 point, so I have 4 points left.

If I burn an Edge to get a critical success, how many points do I have left? 3 or 4?

[Saint Sithney]

3. Think of it like magic and essence loss. It drops off the bottom.

[imperialus]

yeah, it's spent.

I would allow a player to burn a point of edge to use the Hand of God rule if they had already spent all their edge but that's the only circumstance where a point of spent edge could be permanently burned.

[Glyph]

I would say 3. You spent one, then burned one to bring your Edge down to 4. So Edge of 4, and one point spent, means 3 points left to spend, and 4 left to potentially burn.

You could also argue that the spent point was the same one that was later burned, so that you have 4 points left to spend. I would argue the first interpretation mainly for easier bookkeeping, but also because I think when you burn a point of Edge, it should be gone, and all Edge-related calculations should be reduced by one.

It is still a grey enough area that it falls under GM interpretation of the rules, though.

[Dumori]

I take from the top as a GM.

[Simon Kerimov]

I would say 3. You spent one, then burned one to bring your Edge down to 4. So Edge of 4, and one point spent, means 3 points left to spend, and 4 left to potentially burn.

You could also argue that the spent point was the same one that was later burned, so that you have 4 points left to spend. I would argue the first interpretation mainly for easier bookkeeping, but also because I think when you burn a point of Edge, it should be gone, and all Edge-related calculations should be reduced by one.

It is still a grey enough area that it falls under GM interpretation of the rules, though.

This is probably the more interesting method to use for a pit fight. It reduces cheese, and makes Edge strategy more costly. Here's a question to tack on though: If you've spent all of your Edge, can you still burn it?

[Yerameyahu]

I think, for the sake of simplicity, temp Edge and perm Edge should be tracked separately during the 'session' (obviously, temp can't exceed permanent this way). I don't think it happens often enough to be a 'cheese' concern, and it's not like you're avoiding the real sacrifice (your permanent Edge).

[GORK d'ORK]

I think, for the sake of simplicity, temp Edge and perm Edge should be tracked separately during the 'session' (obviously, temp can't exceed permanent this way). I don't think it happens often enough to be a 'cheese' concern, and it's not like you're avoiding the real sacrifice (your permanent Edge).

"GORK calls it cheese in a pit fight where there is only one survivor. GORK will die, or GORK will make someone die, so each and every resource will get burned to the bone. Very cheese if every fighter burns Edge to zero in first fight."

You are quite correct in that it rarely happens in game, but it is a special concern for arena-style combat. If you can either use it or burn it, it has different strategic properties that are way more fun, and allows that Edge 1 fighter have at least one moment of glory before being reduced to a blood puddle.

[Yerameyahu]

Heh. Yes. Pit fighting is a very niche kind of shadowrunning, but I can see how you'd be burning *everything*.

[toturi]

This is probably the more interesting method to use for a pit fight. It reduces cheese, and makes Edge strategy more costly. Here's a question to tack on though: If you've spent all of your Edge, can you still burn it?

By the rules, you can. Which is why to keep things consistent, I track temp Edge and permanent Edge seperately, as long as temporary Edge does not exceed permanent Edge.

[toturi]

DP

[Cain]

Here's a question to tack on though: If you've spent all of your Edge, can you still burn it?

Yes. Your Edge *score* hasn't changed, only your temp Edge pool. Thus, you can have an Edge pool of zero, and an Edge score of 8, allowing you to burn it.

I also don't have burned Edge affect your temp pool, except to restrict its maximum. So, if you have an Edge score of 6 and a Pool of 6, burning Edge would reduce those to 5 and 5.

[sabs]

on a slightly different edge question:

I have a 6 edge, I spend 1 edge to add to a roll. I'm adding 6 dice.
Next round I now have 5 temp edge, 6 perm. I spend 1 edge to add to a roll. do I add 6 dice or 5?

[Karoline]

on a slightly different edge question:

I have a 6 edge, I spend 1 edge to add to a roll. I'm adding 6 dice.
Next round I now have 5 temp edge, 6 perm. I spend 1 edge to add to a roll. do I add 6 dice or 5?

You add 6 again, because edge is awesome (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
(No really, you do add your full edge value)

[Yerameyahu]

Good point. If rolling Edge decreased each time, I think that'd be a significant change from how most people play; that supports temp/perm separate tracking.

But, if you spent a temp point for +6 (5/6 temp), then burned a perm point (6 reduced to 5), and spent another temp point, it'd be +5. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Simple.

[Udoshi]

This is probably the more interesting method to use for a pit fight. It reduces cheese, and makes Edge strategy more costly. Here's a question to tack on though: If you've spent all of your Edge, can you still burn it?

Yes you can.

Edge Points are not Edge Attribute.
4a page74:" A character's Edge Attribute represents he number of [b/]Edge Points[/b] a character has to spend during gameplay. Edge points can be used for a wide range of benefits, each noted below"

If a character burns a point of edge, I think their available ppol would shrink. If they don't have any left - such as a situation in which you would NEED to burn a permanent edge - then they can still do so.

But yeah, the edge pool and the level of your edge attribute are different. Related, but different. Spending edge draws from one, burning from another.