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[Voran]

Having a brain fart moment, but other than through the use of astral perception, is there a way to detect bioware ala walk-thru cyber-scanner? Or is it a matter of 'we have to open him up'?

[Thanee]

I think cyberscanner with enough hits can detect it. Wasn't there a table for the scanner somewhere, which shows what you see with how many hits, or was that in one of the previous editions?

Bye
Thanee

[Doc Chaos]

The core rulebook only lists a cyberware scanner table ('Running the shadows' -> Scanners)

[Muspellsheimr]

Assensing can be used to detect the presence of bioaugmentation, but not what it is.

Non-magical detection requires an "extensive biochemical analysis", taking a minimum of 30 minutes (rushed Extended diagnostics test with 20+ Hits).

[Doc Chaos]

Which I presume includes bloodwork. So no detecting it in detail from afar (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Ascalaphus]

I vaguely recall comments that Arsenal or Augmentation was supposed to contain a bioware scanner, but because they switched publication dates, it got included in neither. Or something like that. Anyway, they're supposed to exist.

(Of course, in SR people still use ceramics and plastics to fool weapon scanners, which will probably be impossible IRL very soon, if it isn't already.)

[IceKatze]

hi hi

I don't see why a detector wouldn't be able to detect bioware if it can penetrate the skin at all. Maybe security needs MRI like scanners for people to walk through, those would easily be able to detect the difference in density and tissue structure of bioware augmentations. Of course, there's no rules to back that up...

[Ascalaphus]

hi hi

I don't see why a detector wouldn't be able to detect bioware if it can penetrate the skin at all. Maybe security needs MRI like scanners for people to walk through, those would easily be able to detect the difference in density and tissue structure of bioware augmentations. Of course, there's no rules to back that up...

Because most of the thinking that went into them is of the old "you detect guns with metal detectors" school. It's a bit dated, I agree.

[Saint Sithney]

Bioware is rich people's augmentation.

You do not police rich people, it just isn't polite!

Also, next to none of it is forbidden..

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

There are rules in Augmentation on how detect bioware. AFB right now, but you need a blood, dna, tissue sample, catscan, whatever. It is really hard to detect iirc. Even standard grade.

[Wanderer]

I don't see why a detector wouldn't be able to detect bioware if it can penetrate the skin at all. Maybe security needs MRI like scanners for people to walk through, those would easily be able to detect the difference in density and tissue structure of bioware augmentations. Of course, there's no rules to back that up...

Performing a high-resolution total-body MRI scan on people stepping through a gateway is not going to be as simple as you think, even for 2070 technology.

[Smokeskin]

Also, next to none of it is forbidden..

One of the top sellers, tailored pheromones, is though.

[Ascalaphus]

Performing a high-resolution total-body MRI scan on people stepping through a gateway is not going to be as simple as you think, even for 2070 technology.

Why not? Look at all the other high-tech, why not this?

[Dahrken]

MRI is out because of the intensity of the magnetic field required. It's probably powerful enough to rip your keyring and any magnetic item you happen to carry through your clothing, and it will play hell with the power supply of any electronic you wear or have integrated itno your body.

[IceKatze]

hi hi

I said MRI-like, not MRI itself. In SR4, the "Cyberware Scanner" is said to be a millimeter wave scanner, but millimeter wave scanners don't penetrate skin. Whatever sort of device they use to see through a body to detect cyberware would undoubtedly be able to detect many types of bioware as well.

Augs like bone density and muscle toner would be especially noticeable.

[Smokeskin]

MRI is out because of the intensity of the magnetic field required. It's probably powerful enough to rip your keyring and any magnetic item you happen to carry through your clothing, and it will play hell with the power supply of any electronic you wear or have integrated itno your body.

Techniques have already been developed that allows for MRI scans to be done at several meters of range - I doubt the magnetic field would be strong at that range.

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/37918

[StealthSigma]

Augs like bone density and muscle toner would be especially noticeable.

I think you mean muscle augmentation, not muscle toner.

Regardless, how do you know the guy is using muscle augmentation or toner and just not naturally in shape? You're pretty much house ruling that you can spot someone with bioware by sight. Here's a good scenario....

Can you tell the difference between someone who is very fit through just working out and someone who is very fit has used HGH and worked out by just looking at the person?

As it stands, Augmentation provides the rules for detecting bioware. It's a Logic + Medicine extended test with a one hour interval and variable thresholds based on what you're using it for. You can use it for Cyberware, Bioware, Genetech, and Nanoware.

Cosmetic Surgery: 4
Organ Transplant: 8
Implant Surgery/Repair: Basic 8, Alphaware 12, Betaware 16, Deltaware 24
Gene Therapy: 16
Nanoware Installation: 16
Implant/Enhancement Detection: 20

So the minimum time it takes to got a positive on the presence of bioware is 1 hour. If the bioware is a recent addition and there's scars or other markings to note that it happened that are visible, you can know that they guy had some implants with a threshold of 8 if it was standard grade. However, that will be the sheer minimum of cases. Most likely you will need the 20 threshold for detection. You basically need tissue samples, blood draws, and other biometric information to turn these up, meaning it isn't going to happen at a checkpoint. Given a 20 threshold, that means you're going to need to roll a total of around 60 dice before the check is complete. For a medical expert, this is probably going to take around 5 hours, maybe 4 if he's lucky.

Functionally, what does this mean? As a GM you really don't have tools (unless you create some super secret new device to detect and identify bioware) to detect the presence of bioware in a PC. In fact, that lack of detectability is one of the advantages to using bioware next to the reduced essence cost. If you're going to regularly make bioware easily detectable, then you should look at partially reducing the cost of it to account for the loss of the concealability factor.

[Voran]

I kinda agree with the idea of bioware has a benefit of 'stealth' to a degree. Though observation is still a key skill in detection. Someone who's moving well beyond the normal ranges for humans (physical ratings 2-3 would be most common for the general public) and depending on mods, move differently. Shadowtech original description of Enhanced Articulation for example had the shadowtalkers commenting on how fluid in motion someone appeared, etc. If you see a guy rip out a ATM machine and throw it, he's enhanced in some way or another.

But I think the trick is in that type of observation, you can't tell until the subject is actually 'doing their thing', which makes the whole bodyguard idea still viable. Is that guy in the suit standing next to the target a bodyguard? an accountant? etc.

[IceKatze]

hi hi

Synthetic, vat grown fiber strands are going to have a different look and texture than natural ones. Even if you were to perfectly replicate natural muscle fibers, they'd have a distinct disadvantage in terms of functionality over bio-engineered ones. So while they may not be as easy to detect as Cyberware by any means, anyone who is familiar ought to be able to pick up on the patterns if they bother to look. That is, of course, bringing reality into a fantasy game, so the rules as written are no doubt just fine for most applications.