Ridiculousness..., This is what I get... Options

[Laodicea]

....for inviting women and newbies to play. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

So, my brother asked me to run an SR4 game. I agreed to do it if we could find some players. I have another group, but the time they meet doesn't work out for him.

I first want to say that my other group is great. Really good RPers, some of them are new to SR, but veterans of The Other Game. They all wrote detailed character descriptions and backgrounds, and then tailored their character to match it(I feel that this is the only correct way to build a shadowrunner for a real campaign). They needed some help optimizing, but that was no problem.


So this new group consists of:
my brother
my best friend
my brothers wife
my wife

Brothers' wife: She hasn't read any of the material. He talked to her a little bit about it, but she hasn't read it. She has zero understanding of the mechanics. They asked me to generate a character for her based on the criteria "She wants to be a kitty." I created a tiger-shifter physical adept for her. I wrote a little background for it. She played it, she got quite a bit more interested in the game as it went on. She even asked mechanics questions and setting questions over dinner afterward. I'm hoping she's interested enough to study the game a LOT more if she wants to continue playing. Otherwise I hope she'll quit playing.

Brother: He spent the time to read some of the material, He spent the time to generate his own character, but he didn't bother with a background, or even a NAME. He didn't bother with knowledge skills or contacts. He made an absurd mystic adept with Move-by-wire. It's actually not even a good character from a min-maxing perspective but I'm not sure he knows that. I'm almost assuredly going to kill this character in the next session.

my best friend: he created a deep and rich background for his character, a great character description, and built the character himself. Truly a good character that would fit well in almost any shadowrun campaign.

my wife: she read some of the material, actually seems genuinely interested. She was thinking of playing a Hacker of some kind, but got sort of bored of the idea. This is where things get really cheesy. Somehow the idea popped into her head to create a Free Spirit character that looks like a Luma from Super Mario Galaxy. The idea did make me LOL so I let her do it. I helped her build the character, but she did a lot of the legwork in researching powers and spells, etc.

TLDR: ridiculous newbie group consists of a Luma, a Tiger-shifter, a mystic-adept w/ MBW and no background, and a rather well thought out and complete physical adept.

[Karoline]

or even a NAME.

That's actually very honestly the last part of a character for me, and possibly the hardest (I suck at naming stuff and I fear for my poor children should I have any).

Still, sounds like you've gotten the wives interested, and that's at least good, right? If just your own wife ends up sticking to it, you might be able to roll her into your main group, which seems like an overall win to me.

MA with MBW... it is somewhat doable, but requires a very particular approach.

[Fauxknight]

but he didn't bother with a background, or even a NAME. He didn't bother with knowledge skills or contacts.

Did he at least take amnesia? I mean he outght to at least get some points out of those missing areas. Either way rather than killing him you should still be able to work with him a bit. Find out if he wants any sort of character background and then if he wants to write it himself or have you make it, or retroactively swap some of his negative qualities for amnesia and then you get to write it yourself and surprise him with it.

That's actually very honestly the last part of a character for me,

Me too, I usually have stats and almost all the background done before I come up with a name.

[Ascalaphus]

Character names are tricky.. I'm very sensitive to names, and if I come up with a name I like a lot, that might end up thoroughly changing the character concept so that they suit each other.

[Neraph]

Either way rather than killing him you should still be able to work with him a bit.

I think he means the character was built so poorly that he's going to die. Not that it'll happen on purpose.

[Karoline]

Character names are tricky.. I'm very sensitive to names, and if I come up with a name I like a lot, that might end up thoroughly changing the character concept so that they suit each other.

"What is in a name? Would a rose by any other name...." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

But really, I know what you mean. I have a stock of names that I reuse that each has a particular personality and skillset attached to them, but that is because they were attached to a character for a long time, not because of the name itself.

[CanRay]

Honestly, that sounds like a bad Shadowrunner joke...

"These 'runners walk into a bar, and..."

[pbangarth]

....for inviting women and newbies to play. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Two of the best players I ever introduced to the game are my wife and my ex-wife. One of the best teams I ever GMed was a group of teenagers, split male/female.

One of the worst teams I ever GMed consisted of seasoned SR players, all male... and my ex-wife. The guys were inept, stuck in one mode of thinking and full of their own self-importance. They were saved from a failed mission, and annihilation by a bored GM (me), by the newbie woman who took over and solved the problem forthwith, showing them in the process how magic and spirits really should be played. They then proceeded to chastise her for not being a 'team player' and threatened her character with death if she ever broke from 'procedure' again. She told them where they could stick it. They didn't have the balls to carry through on their threat, but it was alright, because she joined the teenage team and went on to have years of fun.

[Draco18s]

That's actually very honestly the last part of a character for me, and possibly the hardest (I suck at naming stuff and I fear for my poor children should I have any).

The only way any names I come up with will makes sense is, I hope to any god that will listen, that my children are reptiles (or at least, animals).

Then no one else will have to suffer trying to pronounce them correctly (example, though I blame my mother for this, our one dog was named Nahkohe--brownie to anyone who can determine the language and English translation without using google).

I think more of my characters have been named by the other players/the GM than I have named myself (speaking of which, I don't think I ever told my group why my last SR character was (nick)named "Slinky"...)

[CanRay]

(speaking of which, I don't think I ever told my group why my last SR character was (nick)named "Slinky"...)

Because he falls down stairs?

[Deadmannumberone]

Then no one else will have to suffer trying to pronounce them correctly (example, though I blame my mother for this, our one dog was named Nahkohe--brownie to anyone who can determine the language and English translation without using google).

Was it a Karelian?

I think more of my characters have been named by the other players/the GM than I have named myself (speaking of which, I don't think I ever told my group why my last SR character was (nick)named "Slinky"...)

Because he falls down stairs?

Alone or in pairs?

[suoq]

I have to wonder if they're getting together right now, saying how much fun they had, except, well, they had a GM who expected them to learn 1000 pages of rules by just reading them. Maybe they're wondering how they can get together again, only without someone who clearly doesn't play well with women and new players.

My latest character doesn't have a name either. My experience is that names happen. Sure, I could call him Brock Knockwurst, but that's not a name. Names are things that happen. And sometimes backstories don't reveal themselves till later. (Well, he had a backstory, until I found out that the things it realted to couldn't be on the character sheet under Shadowrun Mission rules. So, new backstory still vague.)

And I don't know the rules. I know this. It used to bother me, but since then I've pretty much realized that no one here knows the rules, including some of the people who wrote the rules, and the FAQ, and apparently the some of the Missions modules.

As for how good the character is, it's hard to tell how good a character should be. Are they supposed to be as good as the sample characters or should they be walking tacnets with a maxed out dice pool on exploit?

In all seriousness, find a new GM and walk away. You don't want to play with them, you're complaining about them behind their backs, and you're planning to kill off one of their characters. I see no path for you to go forward with this that ends well.

[Laodicea]

I have to wonder if they're getting together right now, saying how much fun they had, except, well, they had a GM who expected them to learn 1000 pages of rules by just reading them. Maybe they're wondering how they can get together again, only without someone who clearly doesn't play well with women and new players.

My latest character doesn't have a name either. My experience is that names happen. Sure, I could call him Brock Knockwurst, but that's not a name. Names are things that happen. And sometimes backstories don't reveal themselves till later. (Well, he had a backstory, until I found out that the things it realted to couldn't be on the character sheet under Shadowrun Mission rules. So, new backstory still vague.)

And I don't know the rules. I know this. It used to bother me, but since then I've pretty much realized that no one here knows the rules, including some of the people who wrote the rules, and the FAQ, and apparently the some of the Missions modules.

As for how good the character is, it's hard to tell how good a character should be. Are they supposed to be as good as the sample characters or should they be walking tacnets with a maxed out dice pool on exploit?

In all seriousness, find a new GM and walk away. You don't want to play with them, you're complaining about them behind their backs, and you're planning to kill off one of their characters. I see no path for you to go forward with this that ends well.

I think you're taking this way too seriously.

[Inpu]

Then no one else will have to suffer trying to pronounce them correctly (example, though I blame my mother for this, our one dog was named Nahkohe--brownie to anyone who can determine the language and English translation without using google).

Nahkohe: Cheyenne. I can't remember what it meant though. Deer? Bear? Not my tribe.

[Squiddy Attack]

My latest character doesn't have a name either. My experience is that names happen. Sure, I could call him Brock Knockwurst, but that's not a name. Names are things that happen. And sometimes backstories don't reveal themselves till later. (Well, he had a backstory, until I found out that the things it realted to couldn't be on the character sheet under Shadowrun Mission rules. So, new backstory still vague.)

This, particularly on backstories -- and, hell, personalities.

Generally, while my characters start with names, I decide on a vague idea of personality and the basic skeleton of a backstory, and then RP from there and see how the holes get filled in. IMO, it's much better than planning out an incredibly detailed character at the beginning only to find that the character starts deviating in practice.

A good character will, to some extent, flesh out itself. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Karoline]

In all seriousness, find a new GM and walk away. You don't want to play with them, you're complaining about them behind their backs, and you're planning to kill off one of their characters. I see no path for you to go forward with this that ends well.

Well, he is the GM. And I got the impression that the player was going to kill off his own character, not that the GM was.

I have to wonder if they're getting together right now, saying how much fun they had, except, well, they had a GM who expected them to learn 1000 pages of rules by just reading them. Maybe they're wondering how they can get together again, only without someone who clearly doesn't play well with women and new players.

Very possible. If they're new to the setting (and especially if they aren't big RPG gamers in the first place) I don't expect people to know the rules. I figure they should have at least a basic idea of the setting (Seattle, near future, cyberpunk with mirror shades and magic. Dystopian but not actually that bad, corps run everything and Runners get paid to do illegal stuff for the corps or other parties. Go.), but other than that, expect to have to go through the rules with them.

It's kinda like teaching a class. You don't just give the students a book and expect them to read it all and be ready for a quiz next week. You give them a book and then go over important parts with them, giving examples and reinforcing the important parts and telling them which parts of the book they get to ignore.

[Inpu]

And I don't know the rules. I know this. It used to bother me, but since then I've pretty much realized that no one here knows the rules, including some of the people who wrote the rules, and the FAQ, and apparently the some of the Missions modules.

Nice, broad sweeping statement. I don't entirely think it is true though.

I take a long time designing a name. Street names kind of happen, but the character's real name and NPC street names are often important. Telling names make it a lot easier. In the end, though, characters will often keep the name and then run off in a completely different direction from what you expected in regards to personality.

[Neraph]

Nahkohe: Cheyenne. I can't remember what it meant though. Deer? Bear? Not my tribe.

I knew it to be some Native American tongue, but I was not sure which one. Limiting it to a continent wouldn't be very helpful (in my opinion - it may have been though).

I would guess the name to mean "little bear," but that's based on my extremely limited knowledge of linguistics and my intuition on common concepts for dog names.

EDIT: Possibly "little horse", because IIRC some tribes considered dogs to be like little horses. I may be confusing this with some reference I read in a Riftwar book though. I started reading the Riftwar saga roughly the same time my English/History classes were covering Native America, so something may have bled over in the years since.

[Doc Chase]

"Bear Cub" would also be appropriate.

[sabs]

Besides, He can't find a new GM.
He is the GM.

[Karoline]

Nice, broad sweeping statement. I don't entirely think it is true though.

Given the number of vague rules, self contradictions, and lack of clarifications through errata? I think it's a fair statement. Besides, even the most knowledgeable still need to look up a rule from time to time.

I take a long time designing a name. Street names kind of happen, but the character's real name and NPC street names are often important. Telling names make it a lot easier.

And yet, does it make much difference if your character's real name is bob or joe if everyone knows you as Tank? I admit there is a certain level of completeness and attachment with the character having a real name, but it is hardly a requirement.

[Neraph]

Nice, broad sweeping statement. I don't entirely think it is true though.

I personally think I have a fair grasp of the rules, but that's because I've studied (and run) it for a few years here. I've found many interesting things and had some interesting innovations. Speaking of which, I need to get to posting that new thread...

[Squiddy Attack]

I admit there is a certain level of completeness and attachment with the character having a real name, but it is hardly a requirement.

Depends on the campaign. It sounds like the game in question was intended to be a rather RP-oriented one, as there are complaints about the characters themselves being silly or not much more than pages of stats. In a game like that, the names at least should be a requirement, if you ask me. (Makes things more interesting, anyway.)

[Draco18s]

Because he falls down stairs?

Hehe. No.

He was an Eastern Drake, and orrientals are sometimes (at least, in my particular circle of associations) are called "slinky dragons" because of how they're often portrayed ignoring the laws of physics and weaving their lithe bodies around "like a slinky."

Nahkohe: Cheyenne. I can't remember what it meant though. Deer? Bear? Not my tribe.

Correct sir. Nahkohe is Cheyenne for "bear." He was so named as a puppy because he looked like a bear cub (though as he grew up he resembled that less and less).

Common nick-name was "Knuckle head."

[Notsoevildm]

Names are an interesting thing, especially in Shadowrun. While it is useful to have something to call a runner their final handle is something that can be earned in game.

As an experienced roleplayer, I usually have some sort of concept in mind - my current shadowrun character started with the concept 'mad, androgynous cowboy', but sometimes the characters' name can be hard to settle on.

With new roleplayers, you just have to cut them some slack. And in any case, your line-up is no more outrageous than some I've played with.

This post has been edited by Notsoevildm: Aug 2 2010, 04:48 PM