Ridiculousness..., This is what I get... Options

[Squiddy Attack]

And in any case, your line-up is no more outrageous than some I've played with.

This is true. That just makes it a Pink Mohawk campaign. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Laodicea]

My wife is going to draw the party. She's a gifted artist. I'll post it here when she's done.

[Karoline]

because of how they're often portrayed ignoring the laws of physics and weaving their lithe bodies around "like a slinky."

Or, you know, a snake (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Dragons in general are based on snakes, eagles, and wolves/lions as I recall. It is apparently something hardcoded into our genes. Thats why dragons always have serpentine bodies (Eastern more than western), claws (like a bird of prey), and lots of teeth sharp, often including fangs.

[Inpu]

Given the number of vague rules, self contradictions, and lack of clarifications through errata? I think it's a fair statement. Besides, even the most knowledgeable still need to look up a rule from time to time.

Well, if you want to take the statement as all rules, every rule to exhaustion, then yes. Otherwise, knowing the rules is pretty simple. I know, for a fact, that there is someone in the world who spent inordinate amounts of time learning every detail all the same. I just tend to nitpick sweeping statements, even as I at times make my own.

And yet, does it make much difference if your character's real name is bob or joe if everyone knows you as Tank? I admit there is a certain level of completeness and attachment with the character having a real name, but it is hardly a requirement.

It does to the character. It is only as important as the player in question makes it, and sometimes that can be very important. It can also be amazing. If you play the same character for two years who goes by Tank and someone approaches her to say "Good morning, Samantha", then it can be very powerful.

But yes, not a requirement: just a statement that I tend to like figuring out names as they make up a lot of the identity.

Correct sir. Nahkohe is Cheyenne for "bear." He was so named as a puppy because he looked like a bear cub (though as he grew up he resembled that less and less).

Common nick-name was "Knuckle head."

Elation! Do I receive a cookie?

Possibly "little horse", because IIRC some tribes considered dogs to be like little horses. I may be confusing this with some reference I read in a Riftwar book though. I started reading the Riftwar saga roughly the same time my English/History classes were covering Native America, so something may have bled over in the years since.

You are somewhat correct: some tribes considered horses to be large dogs. Native Americans were familiar with dogs, but horses were brought over from Europe.

[Inpu]

Or, you know, a snake (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Dragons in general are based on snakes, eagles, and wolves/lions as I recall. It is apparently something hardcoded into our genes. Thats why dragons always have serpentine bodies (Eastern more than western), claws (like a bird of prey), and lots of teeth sharp, often including fangs.

Ah, now that is my area of expertise: dragons are elemental in nature, based on forces of nature (the ability of flight, power over air, scales like stone, power over earth, serpentine creatures, which were associated with water, and burning breath, power over fire) as well as a great mix of creatures. They appear in virtually every corner of the world in various incarnations, with some cultures even sharing similar views of a dragon (the Winged Serpent is known in both North America and Australia).

Many Native American dragons had deer antlers or (as funny as it will sound) the ears of a rabbit mixed with the rest of their features. Dragons just seem to be a common myth. I think you're right on the money: dragons are composed of what a culture perceives as powerful, which always includes predators.

[X-Kalibur]

....for inviting women and newbies to play. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

TLDR: ridiculous newbie group consists of a Luma, a Tiger-shifter, a mystic-adept w/ MBW and no background, and a rather well thought out and complete physical adept.

Sounds to me like someone thinks too highly of themself. Everyone has to start somewhere, the point is to encourage so that they become "better players".

[Draco18s]

Or, you know, a snake (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Another common name I use: "snakey-drake." It was, however, too direct for a ShadowRunner's handle.

Elation! Do I receive a cookie?

*Gives brownies, as promised.*

You are somewhat correct: some tribes considered horses to be large dogs. Native Americans were familiar with dogs, but horses were brought over from Europe.

Our cats consider the horses "large dogs."
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Kruger]

The characters of that party don't even sound like they are from a game of Shadowrun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)


On the name thing, it does sound like your brother is just lazy. But I agree that naming can be difficult in a game like Shadowrun where most characters use some kind of handle or nickname of sorts. You put a lot of work into creating a character, and you want to find a name that fits without being too cheesy or dramatic (well, okay, so many players don't care about it being cheesy).


That all said, I guess I can commend your patience. I don't think I'd be able to GM a group that silly unless they brought awesome snacks. I'd have to use a bunch of pre-published adventures, because there's no way I'd waste time writing anything. Are they newbies to role playing, or just to Shadowrun?

[Neraph]

Technically, I believe most dragon concepts to be based off of dinosaurs. When you consider we had the word "computer" in the dictionary before "dinosaur," and there's plenty of dinosaur-looking dragons out there, people had to know them as something.

Not to mention the controversial evidence of human-dinosaur coexistance, or the existance of still-living dinosaurs (apatasaurus, triceratops, plesiasaurus, pteradactyl [screw looking for the correct spellings], among others).

Not sure where the common view of Western ones came from. And before Tolkein, they were nearly all viewed as un-intelligent beasts. If the shoe fits...

[CanRay]

If the shoe fits...

Try telling a Western Dragon (s)he's "Unintelligent", and that shoe (Size 68) will fit right up your hoop.

Might take a bit of time and forcing, but Dragons are patient creatures.

[Draco18s]

Not sure where the common view of Western ones came from. And before Tolkein, they were nearly all viewed as un-intelligent beasts. If the shoe fits...

That's not, exactly, entirely true. And I'm not even considering ancient Chinese works here.

Lets start with Fafnir.

And then continue to The Laidly Worm.

And The Dragon Maid and the Dragon Maid of Ireland.

[Inpu]

As well as virtually all Native American dragons. Not just Chinese, but Japanese dragons were very intelligent as well (they were also often river gods).

Incidentally, Fafnir was always one of my favorite dragon names.

[Neraph]

Side discussion enclosed:

[ Spoiler ]

Fafnir cheated - he started off as a dwarf godling first.

Similar story with Ms. Laidly.

And Serene Dragon Maid (sounds like an anime...). And v2.0.

And also, please note:

they were nearly all viewed as un-intelligent beasts.

My point being that many, many stories of early dragons have them as powerful animals, and that dinosaurs just happen(ed) to be powerful animals. Technically, we have plenty of "dinosaurs" or "prehistoric" animals still alive. In the event that, say, pterydactyls coexisted with men at any point in time, we'd have some crazy stories of them now, wouldn't we? Oh, and by the way, I hear they actually love the taste of rotting human flesh, so the tribes that live near them still have to bury their dead particularly deep otherwise they'll be dug up and eaten. If eye witness testimony is to be trusted, of course.

You know, I've never heard of a group, much less been in one, that actually seems to be made for itself. Well, I correct myself. I ran a game with everyone having amnesia so I made the characters, and they were made to interact and compliment themselves well. Standardly what you get from SR is very much like you described - 1 crappy character because someone doesn't know how to build one, 2 mages (Mage/Adept), and a well-designed street sam. That's actually a misnomer (or close to it) because street sams are so easy to build they always are well rounded.

[Jhaiisiin]

I know in all of our games, characters aren't accepted until they have a name. Street names/aliases are optional, and can come through gameplay (one NPC teammate earned the name Turncoat despite all the GM's effort to the contrary, another PC got named Bob due to his complicated oriental name, etc)

[Traul]

Not to mention the controversial evidence of human-dinosaur coexistance, or the existance of still-living dinosaurs (apatasaurus, triceratops, plesiasaurus, pteradactyl [screw looking for the correct spellings], among others).

Sure, dinosaurs still exist. I have just seen Elvis riding one.

[CanRay]

I know in all of our games, characters aren't accepted until they have a name. Street names/aliases are optional, and can come through gameplay (one NPC teammate earned the name Turncoat despite all the GM's effort to the contrary, another PC got named Bob due to his complicated oriental name, etc)

I have told my players that they name their characters, or I do.

...

Actually, I usually end up naming them anyhow, such as "Captain Cuisinart", the Bio-Ninja Wanna-be.

[Karoline]

Sure, dinosaurs still exist. I have just seen Elvis riding one.

Well, they do actually, depending on how you want to define a dinosaur. Plenty of creatures from that age are still around, I think Alligators are one of the more notable examples as I recall.

And of course, don't forget the mightiest of all dinos... the chicken (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

But really, Alligator totally qualifies.

[CanRay]

Cockroaches have been around for how long?

And they get even nastier in the Sixth World!

[suoq]

I'm fascinated by the thought that the name on the Fake ID is actually important. It's like that scene where Joey is freaking out because he doesn't have a name. It's classic because he has a name and a personality but because he doesn't know who he is (yay for puberty) he doesn't know what to call himself.

On the original version of my current character sheet (before I found out Amnesia wasn't legal in Missions), the running joke was going to be that he introduced himself to Mr. Johnson by a different name every time. I was planning on doing them in alphabetical order.

You can call me... Aaron.
You can call me... Bradley.
You can call me... Charles.

Personally, I was referring to the character in my mind as "You can call me". ""I don't know how badly things have to go wrong to wake up with clothes, a cheap gun, a cheap comlink, and nothing but a chance to start life over again. And I wish I knew, because I'm the guy it's happening to. You can call me... Bradley."

In all honesty, I'm fascinated that I even write backstories for my Shadowrun characters. They're playing in a world where they want to forget where they came from, where no one wants to know where they came from, and where they're going to pretend to be other people different names and different backgrounds for the rest of their lives.

[Jhaiisiin]

IMO, where you came from helps define who you are and how you made it to where you are. So to me, a backstory is pretty important. I only care what the Fake ID name says if you have one. We always care about the character's REAL name, or at least the one that everyone calls him by. Otherwise, it's just "Hey you!" and that isn't acceptable in our games. YMMV

[Ascalaphus]

In all honesty, I'm fascinated that I even write backstories for my Shadowrun characters. They're playing in a world where they want to forget where they came from, where no one wants to know where they came from, and where they're going to pretend to be other people different names and different backgrounds for the rest of their lives.

That's soooo the dystopia of the past.. these days, Market Research wants to know exactly who you are and where you came from. Isn't that nice?

[Punchline]

That's actually very honestly the last part of a character for me, and possibly the hardest.

Yeah, at this point I can churn out a SR4 character, or character for most table-tops I play, in almost no time. But the name? Sometimes it takes an hour, sometimes it takes three days.

[Neraph]

Well, they do actually, depending on how you want to define a dinosaur. Plenty of creatures from that age are still around, I think Alligators are one of the more notable examples as I recall.

And of course, don't forget the mightiest of all dinos... the chicken (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

But really, Alligator totally qualifies.

Thank you. Alligators, many other types of small reptiles, and other such creatures are still alive from that time. The Hyracotherum (..?) is now called a hyrax, still alive in New Zealand and South America IIRC, and believe it or not there's growing support amongst scientists to reclassify many birds as dinosaurs, like the hummingbird.

Also, except for size, hundreds of creatures are identical to fossils of them, such as mosquitos, dragonflies (dragon!), centipedes... There's a massive list actually.

EDIT: Also, go search for "Living Fossils." Horseshoe crabs, frilled sharks, the celeocanth, the graptolite, and many other supposed index fossils have been found alive and well.

[Traul]

Nice dodge. Your initial post stated giant dinos like the triceratops and the brontosaurus as still living and now you are talking about birds? Let's try to stay on track:

- Human-dinosaur coexistence?
- Triceratops still living?
- Apatosaurus still living?

Please cite your sources for those.

[Neraph]

1) A wealth of evidence, such as many cited footprints of both humans and dinosaurs in the same "strata" layers and the Ica stones.

2 + 3) It's called Cryptozoology. Go search it. Mokele-Mbembe, batamzinga, kongamato, seram, orang-bati.... Many others (or the same ones with different tribal names). In fact you can probably find the radio recording of mokele-mbembe doing his calls out in the swamps.