Going back to 2e Options

[tete]

So I've talked with my players and we are going to go back to 2e ( I was thinking 1e but I'm not sure I want to do that) and give it a go. Its been years since I ran 2e and I'm thinking of not using VR2.0 this time, instead my system maps will be very small just one of each and no SPU. Also I am thinking about raising the Karma cost of attributes (I seam to remember everyone having 6s in the old days). Are there any other things I should look out for? I seam to remember spell locks being an issue and Karma Pools can get crazy high after awhile. Thanks for the input!

[Synner667]

I'm wondering what you play now...
...And why you're returning to SR v2.

[Redcrow]

2e was where I got my start in SR and remains my favorite system, though I prefer the Matrix rules from 3e.

[tete]

I'm wondering what you play now...
...And why you're returning to SR v2.

We've mostly been playing Desolation, intermix with the occasional SR3 and SR4. No one has been happy SR4 and we were thinking what the hell, lets go even more retro and see how it goes.

[Link]

Back in the day when D&D3 came out, we gave up 2nd ed. and started playing 1st ed. Similarly, in declining SR4 I've taken more interest in SR1 and 2...
If you prefer the Matrix rules from 3rd why not use VR2? If you're looking at core SR2, SR1 with expansions (chiefly VR, S'tech, RBB and the Grimoire) is pretty similar.

[Platinum]

Spell locks aren't really a problem with grounding, since no matter what force spell the lock is always considered force 1. The only limitation to the amount of foci a mage can be using was his intelligence. There was no force max total for foci addiction.

A bit of a downer for mages were that you had to learn a spell for a specific damage rating. I do remember that a mage can cast at equal or lower force for any spell he has. Turn to goo didn't exist in sr2. It was back in sr3.

Initiation is something to look at. In sr2, you initiate grade 0 and get access to all metamagics instead of going to grade 1 and getting 1 at a time.

Personally I love how skills and skill web are used in sr2, especially firearms and (un)armed combat.

Combat pools refreshed each phase not just each combat turn. (I love this, most people don't)

Vampires are unbelievably deadly with their regen. (best opponents)

Bioware was limited only by your body. Didn't factor into essence/bio index limitation.

[Fauxknight]

Back in the day when D&D3 came out, we gave up 2nd ed. and started playing 1st ed. Similarly, in declining SR4 I've taken more interest in SR1 and 2...

I hear you man, when 3e came out we changed from 2e to 1e. Now with 4e being all over the place we're seriously considiring going from 1e to 0e. You can't make us play your newfangled editions, we'll just stubbornly resist by backtracking further and further until we hit the point where the game didn't even exist...and then what will you do, huh? You can't make a new edition of a game we don't even play!

[Voran]

I miss 1e DnD, 2nd Ed grew on me too, guess cause it was during my formative college years. Never really got into 3e, played 4th ed dnd a bit, found a nice level of potential rapage with a lazer cleric or a warlock.

[BlueMax]

So I've talked with my players and we are going to go back to 2e ( I was thinking 1e but I'm not sure I want to do that) and give it a go. Its been years since I ran 2e and I'm thinking of not using VR2.0 this time, instead my system maps will be very small just one of each and no SPU. Also I am thinking about raising the Karma cost of attributes (I seam to remember everyone having 6s in the old days). Are there any other things I should look out for? I seam to remember spell locks being an issue and Karma Pools can get crazy high after awhile. Thanks for the input!

Look out for
Shadowslang, instead of honest vulgarity
Fantasy, instead of a pale refelection of reality
Critters with bite, instead of Critters that bite.
Players rolling huge amounts of dice, instead of GMs handing out huge amounts of penalties (Ranged Combat, I am looking at you)

No new adventure or game mechanic, material written for the system, instead of very little adventure but massive amounts of real world reflecting fluff.

What can I say, 2nd was the hot drek chummer.

BlueMax

[Mongoose]

I am thinking about raising the Karma cost of attributes (I seam to remember everyone having 6s in the old days). Are there any other things I should look out for? I seam to remember spell locks being an issue and Karma Pools can get crazy high after awhile. Thanks for the input!

Yeah, its easy to reach a 6 attribute if it could be useful to do so (quickness, willpower, int, body). Even at the suggested double cost for going past racial max, my samurai raised a few to 7. Doubling the costs would slow that down a LOT, but be sure you really do want to do that; in SR2, a low willpower or body can be a death sentence in a game with frequent magical opposition, since those are the TNs for combat spells.

You probably want to take a look at the ranged combat mechanics. Under SR2, if you get successes purely from combat pool dice (vs a TN equal to the power of attack - your armor) its a clean dodge. Characters with big ass combat pools and lots of armor can dance through lead hail in many cases (though strip the armor off, and they die). That's the main reason sr3 changed to a special dodge roll vs damage resistance roll (with different TN's for each). Having a big combat pool is also a terror if you are fast, because you can refresh the combat pool with every action. If you want, I could post a (starting level) SR2 character which really breaks on this point (something like 12 combat pool dice and a 16+4d6 initiative).

[Tiralee]

2e = Best stories.

Out of interest, what adventures involved Hawaii (some sacrifice thingy?) and a magic researcher that was going to sacrifice his daughter to a blood spirit?

Flicked through them, didn't pick them up, kicking myself now.

And Universal Brotherhood/Queen Euphoira....DAMN.

There was also a rather fun one involving a shapeshifting golden eagle, a war gas forgotten by the present day and a toxic that had rediscovered it. A good way to kill off the stupid, that one. ("Please refrain from shooting the nerve gas barrels!")


-Tir


PS: Avoid Celtic Double Cross & Imago. Unless you need to kill a few of the party members. (The Lord Protector's Office is NOT nice to the Awakened and any Tir is a Bad Place To Be)

[nezumi]

1) Initiative rules all...

2) Except for grounding. Beware the spirit bomb trick. Mage conjures elemental. Mage goes astral. The two go visit a group of mundane guards. Mage commands elemental to manifest. Mage grounds spell through elemental and kills all the guards. The best solution I can come up with is saying that grounding can only end in the 'natural' environment of the object - grounding spells on elementals only transfers to the astral, grounding spells on foci only transfers to the physical.

Aside from that... have fun!

[Platinum]

No new adventure or game mechanic, material written for the system, instead of very little adventure but massive amounts of real world reflecting fluff.

I have been thinking about this a lot lately. And posted some inquiries on ShadowRN if anyone would be interested in posting their adventures. I would be willing to do the layout on them. I am working on some of AH's stuff, but I don't see any reason why the old stuff should not have any home brew. The chrome book conversions by Gurth were awesome. I am sure that there are some people on here (especially disenfranchised freelancers) that could write adventures that outshine CGL. I would love to see some more rocker/artifact/bug spirit adventures.

2) Except for grounding. Beware the spirit bomb trick. Mage conjures elemental. Mage goes astral. The two go visit a group of mundane guards. Mage commands elemental to manifest. Mage grounds spell through elemental and kills all the guards. The best solution I can come up with is saying that grounding can only end in the 'natural' environment of the object - grounding spells on elementals only transfers to the astral, grounding spells on foci only transfers to the physical.

The easy fix for that is a spirit bane flaw. Actually I would make it more than a flaw in that it would have a penalty to summoning/control spirits/elementals.
All spirits see the menace in the PC's aura, and actively work against the mage.

[tete]

I'd be willing to post my adventures. But really its more like summaries and notes. I never like the "tell it to them strait" format. The encounters in Sprawl Sites are more like my adventure notes.

[BlueMax]

I'd be willing to post my adventures. But really its more like summaries and notes. I never like the "tell it to them strait" format. The encounters in Sprawl Sites are more like my adventure notes.

Sprawl Sites, awesome book. I used to run right out of Sprawl. Now with kids and work and whatnot, there isn't the energy to run on the fly. Most of my adventures are written to match the format from second ed. including notes written as if it could be picked up and run by anyone. Why? Because after a week at the salt mine, I may not remember the details for a scene.

Getting old sucks.

BlueMax

[Platinum]

I'd be willing to post my adventures. But really its more like summaries and notes. I never like the "tell it to them strait" format. The encounters in Sprawl Sites are more like my adventure notes.

We should be able to massage the details into a workable format for people. Stick in a map here and there, a few contacts, and we should be able to get an adventure or at least a chapter. I have a random character generator for the wordman's omnihedron if anyone needs one.

[tete]

So what I got is karma costs for attributes doubled (just to keep it in check and not have 6s in everything running around), Karma Pool is 1/20th rather than 1/10th and grounding can only end in the 'natural' environment of the object - grounding spells on elementals only transfers to the astral, grounding spells on foci only transfers to the physical.

+ I'll be sending Platinum all my adventure notes

[Acme]

Out of interest, what adventures involved Hawaii (some sacrifice thingy?) and a magic researcher that was going to sacrifice his daughter to a blood spirit?

The one in Hawai'i was Paradise lost, I've run and converted it to both 3e and 4e, but there wasn't any sacrifice thing about it, it was just trying to get a prototype while getting involved in Hawai'ian politics a bit.

Remember also that in 2e you have to actually spend your skill points into Knowledge instead of given extra points.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Depending on what you are looking for in a game form fitting armor might be a bit much, you can get the TN to resist most weapons down to like 2, both dodging and soaking. I personally liked it but it gives people with a large body and decent combat pool some serious stamina.

[tete]

Depending on what you are looking for in a game form fitting armor might be a bit much, you can get the TN to resist most weapons down to like 2, both dodging and soaking. I personally liked it but it gives people with a large body and decent combat pool some serious stamina.

IIRC it still lowers reaction so it may be something to look at but until it becomes an issue I think I will leave it as is. Can't wait to start this game but it will have to wait till after PAX

[Samoth]

Dermal Plating owns all in SR2.

[Platinum]

IIRC it still lowers reaction so it may be something to look at but until it becomes an issue I think I will leave it as is. Can't wait to start this game but it will have to wait till after PAX

There isn't any rule to lower reaction, just reduce combat pool if your quickness is under your ballistic.

It basically means you at 2/1 to your secure jacket.

[Platinum]

Dermal Plating owns all in SR2.

Really? I found that it was too costly in essence. I tended to prefer othoskin myself.

[binarywraith]

You know, now that you bring this up, I think I may do this as well. I loved 2e. Wonder if my players will go for it.

[Shinobi Killfist]

There isn't any rule to lower reaction, just reduce combat pool if your quickness is under your ballistic.

It basically means you at 2/1 to your secure jacket.

Did FF armor add into that at all? I can't seem to find my fields of fire which is where I think it originated. I know it stacked but I don't remember if added in to reduce your combat pool at all, at 1/2 or at full.