A thought on cyberware, Sammy vs Mage Options

[Glyph]

Yeah, in that instance I didn't see anything blatantly contradicting the rules, so I see it as clarifying which interpretation is valid.

I do ignore it when it actually does contradict the rules. The ruling on how the mystic adept mage/adept split works is wrong, since the example in the book clearly show that the levels in an adept power are not limited by the level taken for adept powers.

[Shinobi Killfist]

From the FAQ:


Which I agree with, personally. The only modifiers that should apply to both tests should be from glare, smoke, stationary target, etc. Why the hell do people think that splitting their dice pools should magically double their specialization dice or make their foci twice as powerful? Although I think the rules should have been worded much more clearly to begin with.



Oh, and this came up on the first page, but I'll address it:

From Runner's companion (emphasis mine):


So disallowing arcane arrester as geneware is actually RAW, not a house rule.

Hell just for ease of use I prefer this one. How any dice to you roll normally, 16 okay 1/2 that for each spell. 16/2=8 is easier than (8/2)+2+2+4=12. Yeah neither is hard, but i prefer ones where I can glance at crib notes I have of the PCs and know what to expect.

[Dakka Dakka]

How you add the modifiers with multi-casting is unknown as the rules don't say anything, but in the only other two situations where a dice pool is split (shooting two weapons at once, or attacking with two melee weapons simultaneously) all modifiers are applied after the split. IMHO you should not introduce another mechanism. And according to the rules a specialization does not increase the skill but adds a positive dice pool modifier to the roll, so by RAW it is added afterwards unlike what the FAQ says.

Don't forget the aforementioned rule applies to all modifiers including negative ones like visibility, wounds, range etc.

[Glyph]

I always took the term modifiers to apply to things like darkness, stationary targets, and so forth. I always considered dice pool bonuses such as specializations to be part of the base dice pool being split. It makes more sense that way.

The rules are damn annoyingly vague, even with the FAQ. Even the example of multicasting is only a mage with 4 spellcasting and 4 Magic - it would have helped a lot if they had included a specialization and a power focus in there, just to demonstrate how they get split.

[Yerameyahu]

It helps to limit overpower and mod stacking, certainly. Even if it's not RAW, a worthwhile house rule option.

[Sheala]

sorry for resurecting old thread, but anyway...

there are lot of types of mages not all of them are specialized to combat... it takes some spells and dedication to have the same initiative as the sammy. So the sammy acts first... interrupts thje mage with some damage, in perfect world kills him in 1st pass. Of course the mage could be hiding or concealed ... but the same goes for the sammy...

I just remebmer my last session, where i realized how much is initiative needed... I was almost killed in the 1st pass... by mantis spirit corrosive spit. I was a mage with mere 7 initiative, 3 passes (6 base, the bonuses from increase reflexes) Instead of dodging I wanted to attune the insect domain to more natural magical backround, by cleansing. One spit and I was lying on ground. (Good thing the GM let me project astrally and finish the cleansing, and finally our team killed the spirit)
Yes its a spirit, but it could be a grenade from sammy or anything similar (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Shinobi Killfist]

sorry for resurecting old thread, but anyway...

there are lot of types of mages not all of them are specialized to combat... it takes some spells and dedication to have the same initiative as the sammy. So the sammy acts first... interrupts thje mage with some damage, in perfect world kills him in 1st pass. Of course the mage could be hiding or concealed ... but the same goes for the sammy...

I just remebmer my last session, where i realized how much is initiative needed... I was almost killed in the 1st pass... by mantis spirit corrosive spit. I was a mage with mere 7 initiative, 3 passes (6 base, the bonuses from increase reflexes) Instead of dodging I wanted to attune the insect domain to more natural magical backround, by cleansing. One spit and I was lying on ground. (Good thing the GM let me project astrally and finish the cleansing, and finally our team killed the spirit)
Yes its a spirit, but it could be a grenade from sammy or anything similar (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

He who goes first usually goes last. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I am still used to 2e though where the Sams or bad guy Sams would go, then go, then I'd finally go then, they would go again. Luckily I did not have much use for my combat pool so I put it all to saving my ass for the first two passes. So there, I walked both ways up hill in the snow dammit. And now you want to talk about A insect spirit dropping you, A not even plural. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

I think you mean 'an'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Mwa ha.

Why doesn't the mage have the initiative of the sam, though? I thought the spell was identical to Wires. Did this sam get Reaction Boosters or something?

[Sheala]

I think you mean 'an'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Mwa ha.

Why doesn't the mage have the initiative of the sam, though? I thought the spell was identical to Wires. Did this sam get Reaction Boosters or something?

Because it was my 1st char, and i started with reaction 3 and intuition 3 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) took logic tradition, needed some charisma, some willpower ... forgot that reaction and intuition is really needed too

[Shinobi Killfist]

I think you mean 'an'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Mwa ha.

Why doesn't the mage have the initiative of the sam, though? I thought the spell was identical to Wires. Did this sam get Reaction Boosters or something?

An isn't as cool looking when you cap it as A. As for why in 2e a mages initiative wasn't the same 1, sams had access to more boosters(access is the wrong word, but mages did not like losing essence), 2 grounding. No one felt comfortable with a spell lock running. They were the weakest focus(force 1)which made them fireball grounding beacons. In 4e, just look at how you spend your stats even a plane jane sam will have a batter reaction and probably the same or better intuition and you only need 2-3 points higher initiative to pretty much guarantee going faster than the other guy. And heck spirits are damn fast nowadays.

[Yerameyahu]

Ooh, Heck Spirits sound powerful. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I summon 3!

[Shinobi Killfist]

Yeesh, Bind 3, bind 3. You can only have one summoned at a time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

On a serious non-smart ass note, due to how spirits stats are formed a force 5+ spirit goes really fast. You would be hard pressed to get a mage going that speed. Totally possible with enough spell locks, but still hard to do. The force 8ish spirits I typically summoned just go first, once we got around to my initiative so I could command them at least. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beret.gif)

So Sheala while yes reaction and intuition are important don't expect to beat out spirits. And with 200BP you can only get so much, straight 3's in stats uses up 160 of those 200 points. If you want to be good in your drain stats, you end up average in everything else. So unless you have something you can dump, you won't be bumping reaction or intuition much. Also then you might forget body which while I prefer reaction to be above 6 high, I prefer my body to be 4-5 before I get my reaction anywhere. This is because of the armor limit being tied to your body stat. And sustaining focuses can handle a lot of this and because of how increase attribute spells work mid range stats are a good choice IMO.

[Mordinvan]

There is the Arcane Arrester metagenic trait that I could see becoming geneware or bioware.

Geneware maybe.... don't see bioware being an option.