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> Conning a lifestyle
Chance359
post Aug 6 2010, 09:32 PM
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Maybe I've been watching to much Leverage, but I think it would be entirely possible for a face to con his way into a lifestyle. Unwired already had rules for spoofing one, why could a face convince someone that they needed a place. You could even use the same table on p. 99 as the threshold needed to do it.

"I'm so sorry Mr. Peck, it appears that someone forgot to put your reservation in the computer, I could go ahead and upgrade you to the Presidential Suite?"
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Acme
post Aug 6 2010, 09:38 PM
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That actually sounds like a good idea. A little more Lone Star or The Riches than Leverage, if you wanted to try and con your way in on a more permanent basis...

For a one-shot I'd probably require two sux and appropriate bribery to get to a level higher than your normal one, with an additional sux per level above.
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CanRay
post Aug 6 2010, 09:56 PM
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There's rules for Spoofing a Lifestyle in Unwired.

That's the first step unless you want to convince the senile old lady that you're really her Nephew Harold who was lost in the EuroWars. Despite you being a Troll. And him being a Dwarf.
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Udoshi
post Aug 6 2010, 10:19 PM
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The advanced lifestyle rules have rules for roomates - each adds +10%(the Dependents quality also reflects deadbeat roomates you have to pay for).

So, basically, all a face has to do is convince someone they're worth letting schmooze off their lifestyle for free.
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CanRay
post Aug 6 2010, 10:38 PM
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Another option is in Runner's Companion, where you live with your Parents.

"Mom, I'm going out with my friends... ... ... Yes, the Troll that carries the Shotgun where ever he goes. And the crazy girl that has more tattoos than clothing. ... NO WE'RE NOT DOING DRUGS!"
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Wasabi
post Aug 6 2010, 10:50 PM
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In a roleplaying game social skills should be able to get anything able to be sold. Smokes more easily than nukes.
It may not get your SIN on the lease but if you get a key does it matter?
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Abstruse
post Aug 7 2010, 01:29 AM
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I'd use the spoofing rules, but replace social tests for hacking ones. Either that, but allow it as flavor text but still force him to pay the upkeep as a "symbol" of the effort he has to put in.
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Karoline
post Aug 7 2010, 01:50 AM
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Well, spoof is basically the matrix equivalent of con anyway, so I would think it is totally possible. I think it might be a bit harder than spoofing on the matrix though because you have to totally BS someone that you paid your rent last week, or some other fairly hard to swallow story, and that is only for the place to live, doesn't include having to BS the utility guys, BS the furniture salesman, and the waiter at the bar, etc. It just seems like it would be far more difficult than spoofing a fake payment for the various things, or whatever else spoofing entails. Maybe double the threshold since you have to deal with people instead of automated programs. Program won't question the fact that it actually didn't get any money if it gets sent the proper command to think that it got sent money, but a person is going to be a bit more careful about that sort of thing.

Then again, I saw on TV someone pulling such an epic con check that they bough a diamond ring (few thousand dollars) with blank sheets of paper.
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Yerameyahu
post Aug 7 2010, 04:10 AM
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You can already use social skills to reduce costs and increase selling values. I feel like that's probably enough. I like the idea of 'let's go steal a house' ŕ la Leverage, but social skills are known to be the *most* broken. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Hand-E-Food
post Aug 7 2010, 06:04 AM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Aug 7 2010, 08:38 AM) *
"Mom, I'm going out with my friends... ... ... Yes, the Troll that carries the Shotgun where ever he goes. And the crazy girl that has more tattoos than clothing. ... NO WE'RE NOT DOING DRUGS!"

Hehe... One of my NPCs was like that, only her mum was her Johnson.
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Chainsaw Samurai
post Aug 7 2010, 06:37 AM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Aug 6 2010, 02:38 PM) *
Another option is in Runner's Companion, where you live with your Parents.

"Mom, I'm going out with my friends... ... ... Yes, the Troll that carries the Shotgun where ever he goes. And the crazy girl that has more tattoos than clothing. ... NO WE'RE NOT DOING DRUGS!"


I'm currently doing the big beefy troll street samurai with a bit of a soft spot. He keeps disposable comlinks to occasionally call his parents because, "they worry."
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Saint Sithney
post Aug 7 2010, 07:31 AM
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The problem with comparing spoofing a lifestyle with conning one is that, when you spoof, you're grabbing a touch of cred here and there, routing the things you need to be where you need them. Doing that by talking to people is going to be considerably more time consuming and harder. It's comparing running a series of short cons to just using stolen credit card numbers. Not terribly similar.

I do like the idea of conning roommates/lovers for a massive lifestyle reduction.

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Inpu
post Aug 7 2010, 07:35 AM
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I had an old character who had the handle Smiles who had street lifestyle. He managed to spend most of his time in the houses of one night stands or with other team members.

He was such a sleezy face. It was hysterical.

In any case, while he managed to con his way into houses and beds most of the time, he often spent time under a bridge as well even with his dice pool. Especially if he was in an area for too long. If you con people face to face, they might eventually start talking. If you have regulars, they will eventually notice too. So, it isn't very unlike the spoof charts: eventually, you need to keep moving.
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Makki
post Aug 7 2010, 07:40 AM
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maybe have a look in RC advanced lifestyle rules. One could probably con the Entertainment part easily. And maybe go the local Gang to get a better Security. But with Necessities, which includes electronic bills for power and water, maybe harder.
Instead conning a hotel lifestyle might be ok...
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CanRay
post Aug 7 2010, 01:50 PM
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The old "Beverly Hills Cop" movies shows various ways to con people into letting you stay at a nice place for free. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Xahn Borealis
post Aug 7 2010, 02:28 PM
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QUOTE (Karoline @ Aug 7 2010, 02:50 AM) *
Then again, I saw on TV someone pulling such an epic con check that they bough a diamond ring (few thousand dollars) with blank sheets of paper.



That was Darren Brown. He talked with the person he was buying stuff off and managed to fit the words "Take that," into the conversation just as he handed the 'money' over. Not a con, more like Palming.
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Hedrik
post Aug 7 2010, 02:50 PM
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I don't think there should be a difference between conning and spoofing. In both cases there are still some people involved. There is no difference in me telling someone I already paid my rent or a computer program does it. In both cases the owner of the flat will notice that no money arrives on his account. Because spoofing a livestyle does not include real money being spoofed.
The same goes even for automated kitchens and alike. Sure I can spoof the kitchen to give me some meals but the owner will notice at sometime that repeatedly free meals leave this auto-kitchen.

Spoofing and conning alike include, in my opinion, to change location on a regular basis. I suggest spoofing and conning can just be an upgrade of the current lifestyle with the same thresholds.
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Saint Sithney
post Aug 8 2010, 01:35 AM
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QUOTE (Hedrik @ Aug 7 2010, 07:50 AM) *
Because spoofing a livestyle does not include real money being spoofed.


Says who? You steal someone's Matrix ID, then you spoof it and make a purchase. Now that guy just bought you lunch.
The trick that a hacker has here is that he is stealing small amounts of money from lots of different places and routing the purchases around to hide the trail. Digital identity theft is a lot easier than physical identity theft. Next to no research needed. Just sit in a public place while running a Trace program and you're grabbing ID after ID. Sure you're not going to be able to buy guns and stuff with stolen money, but grabbing a new soy block? That's not even an issue.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Aug 8 2010, 03:01 AM
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QUOTE (Saint Sithney @ Aug 7 2010, 07:35 PM) *
Says who? You steal someone's Matrix ID, then you spoof it and make a purchase. Now that guy just bought you lunch.
The trick that a hacker has here is that he is stealing small amounts of money from lots of different places and routing the purchases around to hide the trail. Digital identity theft is a lot easier than physical identity theft. Next to no research needed. Just sit in a public place while running a Trace program and you're grabbing ID after ID. Sure you're not going to be able to buy guns and stuff with stolen money, but grabbing a new soy block? That's not even an issue.


Indeed... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
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Udoshi
post Aug 8 2010, 03:38 AM
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In game terms, I'm pretty sure you'd incur the -6 for Spoofing a command from an Admin account(advanced spoofing in unwired), to spend someone elses money - or else you'd have to spoof their bank to authorize the transaction.

Not saying its not doable, but it might not be easy. Banks have notoriously high security, and I wouldn't be surprised if they needed a biometrics scan to authorize internet purchases.
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suoq
post Aug 8 2010, 04:11 AM
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Note that a risk to spoofing the account is that the owner of that account may be notified. (One option on visa cards is to get a text message when "a transaction is approved or declined; when funds are loaded to you account; when your account balance falls below a specified amount; and when your account profile or card status is changed". ( https://www.visaprepaidprocessing.com/BancF.../FAQProgram.htm ).

Spoofing isn't free cash for hackers. It contains a certain amount of work and risk. Sure, you can pay for your power with someone else's account. And that someone else may now have a large incentive to find out who is getting powered delivered to that address with their money.

Notoriety isn't always a good thing. Anyone who keeps getting free lunches by spoofing is eventually going to be known as the Soyburgler, no matter what he wants his handle to be.
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Yerameyahu
post Aug 8 2010, 04:22 AM
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I don't think it works that way, as described. The book seems to say that you're tricking automated systems into working, not that you're paying for anything with stolen money. It's like phreaking, or getting a free soda from the machine.
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suoq
post Aug 8 2010, 05:27 AM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 7 2010, 11:22 PM) *
I don't think it works that way, as described. The book seems to say that you're tricking automated systems into working, not that you're paying for anything with stolen money. It's like phreaking, or getting a free soda from the machine.


According to Unwired, PG 84 the hacker needs access IDs. The section ends with:
QUOTE
Of course, sooner or later the people the hacker is ripping off are going to find out and cut power, send her bills, reclaim property (and possibly break her hands), so a hacker spoofing her way through life has to be constantly juggling her needs and extras, re-issuing commands, switching services, and grabbing new access IDs all the time.
> The phrase “living on borrowed time” comes to mind.
> Icarus


The constant need for more access IDs makes it very different from Phreaking or getting a free soda from the machine.
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Yerameyahu
post Aug 8 2010, 05:29 AM
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Sure, but that's not stolen money. Like I said, it's defrauded goods and service. That's why you'd cut power, send bills, etc. Access IDs are just changing your *trail*. I think you're missing the point of my analogy. It's like phreaking in that it's defrauding goods and services, and in that it's *not* stealing cash. Context. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

It would be like phreaking from *different* phone lines, or (to use a different analogy) sneaking into a hotel with a different fake ID.
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Voran
post Aug 8 2010, 06:32 AM
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Heh, old school 'face cons lifestyle' is easily Eddie Murphy in Beverly Hills Cop 2, "Bullshit! You've stolen this house!" or #1 when he cons "I think I might as well just call it "Michael Jackson Can Sit On Top of the World Just As Long As He Doesn't Sit in the Beverly Palm Hotel 'Cause There's No N***** Allowed in There!"

The problem ends up in that its entirely short term. For either matrix con or face con, the time limit is pretty short, requiring either you move around alot, or con someone into paying for you (the LAPD, for example).

I'd think the fallout would be interesting too. I'm not sure how it is in other places, but some of the stores I goto, noodle shops, whatever, usually have posted bad checks and stuff to alert them of people that have conned them before. In some cases, they have pictures. While the matrix dude can erase that trail, the face, especially if they've gotten their picture taken, or if they plan on running the same con, has to watch out for 'running out of locations'.
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