Some Adept questions, Having trouble finding some refrences Options

[Pat]

I have some random questions about Adepts. I've found some places were things seem to be inferred, and some where the books kinda glaze over the subjects. I'd like to know if anyone can find some page refrences.

I believe from everything I've read, that it is inferred that Adepts can use Weapon Foci. Can anyone find where it says this difinitivly by RAW? Can they use any other Foci?

From what I read, Adepts can learn magic based skills such as Assensing (if they have the astral perception Adept power), and the books seem to say that they can learn Enchanting, but can they learn any others? Such as Counterspelling?

Can a Foci at a later time be upgraded somehow, since it seems that without the restricted gear quality you can only have a foci at a force rating of 2 at chargen.

In many of the examples I have seen, it refers to an "Awakened Character" doing or having things, but then later seems to qualify the statement by saying Magician.

Also, it is specifically mentioned that Adepts can take the Mentor Spirit quality. Does this only have a benefit for the Adept if the Mentor spirit actually gives a bonus to something that is not a spell? (Thus limiting the actually useful Mentors that a Adept should choose?)

[Acme]

I have some random questions about Adepts. I've found some places were things seem to be inferred, and some where the books kinda glaze over the subjects. I'd like to know if anyone can find some page refrences.

I believe from everything I've read, that it is inferred that Adepts can use Weapon Foci. Can anyone find where it says this difinitivly by RAW? Can they use any other Foci?

From what I read, Adepts can learn magic based skills such as Assensing (if they have the astral perception Adept power), and the books seem to say that they can learn Enchanting, but can they learn any others? Such as Counterspelling?

Can a Foci at a later time be upgraded somehow, since it seems that without the restricted gear quality you can only have a foci at a force rating of 2 at chargen.

In many of the examples I have seen, it refers to an "Awakened Character" doing or having things, but then later seems to qualify the statement by saying Magician.

Also, it is specifically mentioned that Adepts can take the Mentor Spirit quality. Does this only have a benefit for the Adept if the Mentor spirit actually gives a bonus to something that is not a spell? (Thus limiting the actually useful Mentors that a Adept should choose?)

Keep in mind there are several types of adepts. Many of the Adept powers they talk about, your last question for instance, you're making the mistake of equating physad with that ability. In a number of those cases, (the mentor spirit quality for instance) is for a Magical Adept, ie a mage/shaman that can only cast spells or summon spirits, not both. Hope that at least helps.

[Pat]

Keep in mind there are several types of adepts. Many of the Adept powers they talk about, your last question for instance, you're making the mistake of equating physad with that ability. In a number of those cases, (the mentor spirit quality for instance) is for a Magical Adept, ie a mage/shaman that can only cast spells or summon spirits, not both. Hope that at least helps.

Unfortunatly not. Since by SR4a it actually spells that one out completely.
"This quality is only available to characters with either the
Magician, Adept, or Mystic Adept quality."
pg.92 SR4a

RAW actually say Adept, when they mean Adept, and Mystic Adept, when they mean Mystic Adept.

[Acme]

Well I hate to say it but you'll need to be a bit specific in your questions then, because when I think Adept, I think all the different types, not just PhysAd.

[DingoJones]

I believe from everything I've read, that it is inferred that Adepts can use Weapon Foci. Can anyone find where it says this difinitivly by RAW? Can they use any other Foci?

Yes, they can use weapon foci.

From what I read, Adepts can learn magic based skills such as Assensing (if they have the astral perception Adept power), and the books seem to say that they can learn Enchanting, but can they learn any others? Such as Counterspelling?

No, they cannot learn counterspelling, spellcasting, ritual, banishing etc. etc.

Can a Foci at a later time be upgraded somehow, since it seems that without the restricted gear quality you can only have a foci at a force rating of 2 at chargen.

Well. I'm not sure on that one but the forse of the focus you can start with is different for each focus. They have different availabilities. I haven't closely read the enchnting stuff, so I don't know about upgrading.

In many of the examples I have seen, it refers to an "Awakened Character" doing or having things, but then later seems to qualify the statement by saying Magician.

Think of "Magician" as a sub catagory of "Awakened Character". Obviously, when it qualifies a statement later with something more specific, go with the specific term.

Also, it is specifically mentioned that Adepts can take the Mentor Spirit quality. Does this only have a benefit for the Adept if the Mentor spirit actually gives a bonus to something that is not a spell? (Thus limiting the actually useful Mentors that a Adept should choose?)

Thats exactly right.

Keep in mind that ther is actually a lot of overlap with Awakened Characters sometimes. You can make spellcasting adepts, magicians with adept powers with the right combination of qualties.

[Glyph]

Also, it is specifically mentioned that Adepts can take the Mentor Spirit quality. Does this only have a benefit for the Adept if the Mentor spirit actually gives a bonus to something that is not a spell? (Thus limiting the actually useful Mentors that a Adept should choose?)

Depending on the mentor spirit, an adept might get only half of the bonus, but they often escape the penalty, too. For example, an adept with the Moon Maiden mentor spirit would essentially get +2 to negotiation tests from it, since both the bonus to Illusion spells and the penalty to Combat spells would not apply. There are some mentor spirits that give bonuses to non-magical tests, and those bonuses stack with things such as improved ability.

[Mäx]

In many of the examples I have seen, it refers to an "Awakened Character" doing or having things, but then later seems to qualify the statement by saying Magician.

I wouldn't think it as a qualifier, they use those two terms pretty much interchangeably all around that chapter.

As for the foci, i dont see any limits on adept having them, but for a phys.ad only ones usefull ones are weapon foci, power focus and maybe sustaining focus.

[Pat]

I wouldn't think it as a qualifier, they use those two terms pretty much interchangeably all around that chapter.

As for the foci, i dont see any limits on adept having them, but for a phys.ad only ones usefull ones are weapon foci, power focus and maybe sustaining focus.

That's pretty messed up if they use magician interchangably with Awakened character, since in other parts, it details the types of awakened characters as magicians, adepts, and mystic adepts, like in the text I quoted before...

"This quality is only available to characters with either the
Magician, Adept, or Mystic Adept quality."

[Pat]

Well I hate to say it but you'll need to be a bit specific in your questions then, because when I think Adept, I think all the different types, not just PhysAd.

Well, the guy who posted right after you seemed to think my questions were pretty specific. answered them point by point. thanks for that btw.
And as to my terminology of saying Adept instead of PhysAd, that is because that is exactly how the book defines them. The three awakened characters being Magicians, Mystic Adepts, and Adepts.

[Acme]

Well, the guy who posted right after you seemed to think my questions were pretty specific. answered them point by point. thanks for that btw.
And as to my terminology of saying Adept instead of PhysAd, that is because that is exactly how the book defines them. The three awakened characters being Magicians, Mystic Adepts, and Adepts.

Sorry if it came off a little harsh. I'll admit I'm a little trapped in edition limbo in my head that terminology gets a little spazzed out sometimes.

[Yerameyahu]

It doesn't matter too much. Mentor Spirits do almost nothing for (physical) Adepts, so go nuts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Pat]

Sorry if it came off a little harsh. I'll admit I'm a little trapped in edition limbo in my head that terminology gets a little spazzed out sometimes.

its ok, I can understand your confusion. I had a decently long break between my SR1 to SR3 to SR4 experiences, so I didn't have much old info trying to insist it was up to date, since I was relearning, with only the vague rememberance of how things were.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

It doesn't matter too much. Mentor Spirits do almost nothing for (physical) Adepts, so go nuts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

it depends on the mentor spirit though.
The Dark King for instance gives +2 to Perception and Assensing. It is good for everyone.

[Yerameyahu]

Yes, there are a couple of choices that a (physical) Adept has. I say go for it, because it's hardly overpowering. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Yes, there are a couple of choices that a (physical) Adept has. I say go for it, because it's hardly overpowering. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Not really overpowering, but I think it is really cool that my PhisAd jaguar-shapeshifter has Perception 8 right at the begining of the campaign (without Improved Skill power).

[Yerameyahu]

Yeah. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Perception is one of the easiest Tests to stack up dice on, though. There's cyber, qualities, gadgets, etc. It's nice not being caught unaware.

[Abstruse]

No, they cannot learn counterspelling, spellcasting, ritual, banishing etc. etc.

Not 100% accurate...they can LEARN the skills, but can't use them as active skills. They would be treated as Knowledge-only skills, similar to a burned-out magician.

[Wounded Ronin]

Listen to this music until you understand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swJd6BiQEnc

[Glyph]

it depends on the mentor spirit though.
The Dark King for instance gives +2 to Perception and Assensing. It is good for everyone.

Owl is better for a pure (non spellcasting) adept, though. A -1 to combat spells, which won't affect the adept at all, vs. -1 to resist physical damage for Dark King.

Remember, though, mentor spirits are not merely bonus dice. They have an ethos/code of conduct built into them, too, meaning that if you don't abide by the ideal of that mentor spirit, the GM can mess with your Magic. So if you don't think you could roleplay Dark King or Owl appropriately, you would be better off getting the Perceptive quality instead. Either half as effective, or twice as expensive, depending which version, but you don't have to worry about all that.