Retirement cap announced, So I was told Options

[SaintHax]

I was told at GenCon by a GM that Bull announced the retirement cap at Origins and that it was 100 karma. Also, something about the benefits to people that retire a character. Can I get some validation?

[CollateralDynamo]

Unfortunately I can't validate anything. The rumors were flying fast and furious at Gen Con...I didn't even hear that something official was released yet...

[Bull]

It's been talked about, but not finalized, but it will likely be somewhere in that range. Missions thus far has been... Uneven, in it's rewards. Mainly due to the writers and the missions developers often not being on the same page. Hopefully we're going to fix that some with Season 4, and the karma awards will be changing up a bit as well (TO more closely match the suggested rewards from the SR4A). As such, we want to do something of a soft "reset" and level the playing field a bit.

For post season 4, I expect the karma cap will be a bit higher.

Bull

[Aaron]

I'm not anyone official, but I've heard some of the talk Bull has alluded to, and since I'm nobody official I'm more willing to give detailed speculation than he is. =i)

I've heard talk that puts the promotion level between 100 and 250 Karma. I've also heard talk about setting it for "one full season [year] of Missions adventures," which would be twelve monthlies and six (I think?) CMP games (and not including the Scramble, I think), which would be 108 Karma if you got 6 Karma in every session, so that 100 Karma figure sounds pretty close. Of course, if the max Karma award for each adventure is increased, so will be this figure.

All the talk I've heard has been that Prime Missions are a given, so once your character is promoted, you'll have access to twice the Missions adventures you had before, plus other bennies for promoting a character.

Disclaimer: all this is merely speculation based upon what I've heard, intended only to provoke stimulating conversation. =i)

[TranKirsaKali]

Personally I am going to hope for closer to 200 Karma. I really am just not ready to retire Kali. Sigh.

[Wasabi]

If its as low as 100 karma I would ask that if we play one character that we be able to put the karma on a different character.
That way if people have a sentimental attachment to their character they can continue playing it and just advance an alt they didnt play.

This would create a stable of 100pt characters over a period of several years so players could pick and choose their fave char at the moment rather than the one character permitted in that year.

[jakephillips]

As the player of a 175 Karma Character Papa CEEJAY Troll Voodoo Magician I understand the need for a cap or divisions for characters. At Gen con I played 7 Missions and always had folks just starting out in SRM at the table. So we played a low table rating 2 or 3 and I worked with the GM to not spell the encounters to death. Casting Mass area debuff spells like ORGY or to reduce their die pools and letting the rest of my party roll some dice to kill them. But if I am going to retire I would like to have the chance to play in high level or PRIME adventures with Papa as he completed ALL of the Denver adventures and some of the NY.

I also think starting those who have retired off with extra build points or free upgrade to alpha or beta cyber or free focus bonding for mages, and/or increased availability for starting gear would be a good way to start.

I am already thinking about a Close Combat Sam with some social skills to bring in for next year. The sooner all of this gets decided the better off we will be.

[LurkerOutThere]

Questions, if were starting the folks who retire their character off with a bunch of free stuff what's the point of doing a retirement system again? Part of the point of running retirement is to get everyone on roughly the same footing power wise. Alpha, Beta, or a free focus would completely defeat that point.

[Aaron]

Questions, if were starting the folks who retire their character off with a bunch of free stuff what's the point of doing a retirement system again? Part of the point of running retirement is to get everyone on roughly the same footing power wise. Alpha, Beta, or a free focus would completely defeat that point.

It was originally envisioned (and I believe this is still the case, but Bull is the last word here) that by adding a promoted track, Missions could still have street-level adventures while still allowing the high-powered characters a venue to play in, with higher threats, higher pay, and adventures that have more impact in the world. The promoted (not retired) characters will have adventures, too.

A new character for a player with a promoted character doesn't get freebies ... well, sort of. They get free-as-in-speech, not free-as-in-beer. We were shooting for more options rather than more power, but again, I can't speak to what the rules will look like in the end.

[SaintHax]

Questions, if were starting the folks who retire their character off with a bunch of free stuff what's the point of doing a retirement system again? Part of the point of running retirement is to get everyone on roughly the same footing power wise. Alpha, Beta, or a free focus would completely defeat that point.

I agree, however I would support a lesser bonus. Getting a free useful contact would be nice-- not your old character, as owners of retired faces will have a big leg up on the rest. Or a free edge, or access to a certain background/group. Or nothing-- except that the game produces 1 or 2 Prime runner mods a year (maybe the CMP's) that only retired characters can play in.

[Fringe]

I agree, however I would support a lesser bonus. Getting a free useful contact would be nice-- not your old character, as owners of retired faces will have a big leg up on the rest. Or a free edge, or access to a certain background/group. Or nothing-- except that the game produces 1 or 2 Prime runner mods a year (maybe the CMP's) that only retired characters can play in.

Additionally, I might recommend banning the new character from joining any magical group the prime runner belongs to. While the temptation is there to stay in the same group, it could be construed as granting at least contact-level access to the old character(s). Could you imagine belonging to a long-established PC magical group with the Fraternity stricture? Granted, it works both ways, but it provides access to more power than probably is intended.

[Wasabi]

The Resonance Mesh echo also presents a similar problem as does Linking a sprite to aid someone else.

[CrowOfPyke]

While I was at GenCon I did not hear about a specific number for the "Prime Runners" retirement cap. I talked to the organizer briefly and he only mentioned that there will be a "Prime Runner" system and cap coming in the future, but didn't give any more details. I imagine when they have this figured out completely, they'll announce it.

For my 2 cents: I would strongly prefer being able to play the same character for two seasons, ie- Play in Denver, then go play in NY. You work yourself up the ladder in one season, then get to enjoy the flavor in the second season. After that... yeah, it's time to retire.

[jakephillips]

Questions, if were starting the folks who retire their character off with a bunch of free stuff what's the point of doing a retirement system again? Part of the point of running retirement is to get everyone on roughly the same footing power wise. Alpha, Beta, or a free focus would completely defeat that point.

Not a pile of free stuff just one of a number of choices to reward the player for years of shadowrun. A higher availability cap for starting items or free contacts to start would be cool or the abilty to play a cool meta type not normally allowed like a drake or shapeshifter not all of those things just one of them would be cool.

[SaintHax]

As the player of a 175 Karma Character Papa CEEJAY Troll Voodoo Magician I understand the need for a cap or divisions for characters. At Gen con I played 7 Missions and always had folks just starting out in SRM at the table. So we played a low table rating 2 or 3 and I worked with the GM to not spell the encounters to death.

This is partially fault of how games are being scheduled. This wasn't as big a deal in VS and SRM00 days when we ran games concurrently in slots so we could marshal by power levels. If only this would have been suggested sooner (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=&a...st&p=841208

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...5&hl=GenCon

[KarmaInferno]

A significant issue is that Total Karma is NOT always a good indicator of power level.

Some builds are really quite powerful with zero Karma. Others need a ton of Karma to really shine.

[SaintHax]

A significant issue is that Total Karma is NOT always a good indicator of power level.

Some builds are really quite powerful with zero Karma. Others need a ton of Karma to really shine.

SRM03 allows you to pick your tier, so this really isn't an issue.

[DWC]

SRM03 allows you to pick your tier, so this really isn't an issue.

That has been a definite improvement. I maintain that the TR system needs some tweaking, particularly in the matrix where the addition of the TR dice to stats already scaled by TR grossly skews the probably curve, but at the core, I like the idea of getting to chose where to sit on the risk versus reward curve.

[KarmaInferno]

SRM03 allows you to pick your tier, so this really isn't an issue.

But we're not talking about SRM03.

We're talking about the retirement cap.



-karma

[Wasabi]

If there aren't any more major conventions before 2011 please announce the Prime Runner cutoff. We players really want to know even if we don't know about the details of widgets granted or other bits. Thanks!

[Dantic]

A significant issue is that Total Karma is NOT always a good indicator of power level.

Some builds are really quite powerful with zero Karma. Others need a ton of Karma to really shine.

I agree. Like a Street Sam, versus a Technomancer.

[jakephillips]

I agree. Like a Street Sam, versus a Technomancer.

I concur Total Karma is not a good indicator of power level.

[Aaron]

That has been a definite improvement. I maintain that the TR system needs some tweaking, particularly in the matrix where the addition of the TR dice to stats already scaled by TR grossly skews the probably curve, but at the core, I like the idea of getting to chose where to sit on the risk versus reward curve.

If your GM is adding TR dice to stats already influenced by TR, your GM is doing it wrong, I think.

[DWC]

The rules are quite explicit, and exactly the same in the opening boiler plate of every Season 3 Missions module that's been published.

"Table Rating (TR) is used to adjust the didifficulty of an adventure so that it is appropriate to the characters playing it.  The TR value can be used to increase the number or abilities of opponents, and the device ratings of equipment in the adventure. In addition, when NPCs or devices are making tests for anything except resisting damage, award them a number of bonus dice equal to the TR as an additional situational bonus."

In a lot of places, it's pretty minimally problematic, especially in simple opposed tests. I maintain that it completely breaks down in the matrix. How does a non-TM handle a system that rolls 20 dice on each attempt to detect him when he can't drive his threshold higher than 6, and he can't do anything to penalize the system's pool?

[Wasabi]

In a TR6 node you have to be uberviolent to survive and the Mute program option is a must.

Make the matrix equiv of a Street Sam and play it that way. Spend a lot of Edge. I spent Edge on every single matrix test [except the first of two simple actions doing Observe in Detail] at Dragoncon until I was the last man standing. The one time I tried to conserve my Edge my opponent lived and successfully struck me with Psychotropic Blackhammer.