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> Blood and Toxic and Insect, Oh My!
Neraph
post Aug 12 2010, 03:58 PM
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Let's start off with some definitions:

QUOTE (Invoking Blood Spirits, page 139, Street Magic)
To use this advanced metamagic, magicians must first master both Sacrifice and Invoking. A blood sacrifice (during which the donor must be killed) is performed as part of the modified Invoking ritual. Rather than invoking an appropriate great form spirit from a bound spirit, the ritual transforms the bound spirit into a great form blood spirit.


QUOTE ( Corruption, page 143, Street Magic)
Corruption metamagic allows a toxic magician to pervert a spirit into a toxic version of itself. To corrupt a spirit, the toxic must first reduce the spirit's services to 0 with Banishing (see p. 180, SR4)... If the spirit is successfully brought into the magician's seervice, it immediately transforms into a toxic version of itself (see Toxic Spirits, p. 144).


And then there's standard Insect Spirits.

So here's how it goes down:

1) Insect Spirit shows up.
2) Toxic mage with Invoking, Sacrifice, and Invoking Blood Spirits hits the Insect Spirit with Banishing, and then Summoning to bring it into his service (or "Catch 'em all," as it were). This Corrupts the spirit, making a Corrupted Insect Spirit (I like the Anaphylaxis power).
3) Toxic mage binds the Corrupted Insect Spirit.
4) Toxic mage performs a blood sacrifice during an Invoking ritual. This turns the Corrupted Insect Spirit into a Great Form Blood Corrupted Insect Spirit, granting the Insect Spirit not only a Corrupted spirit Power, but also the spirit Powers listed for Blood Spirits.

5) Profit.

All the spirit Powers in question are located between pages 139 and 154, Street Magic. I personally like the idea of Soldier Beetle Blood Spirit with Mutagen. Or an Ant Queen Blood Spirit with Anaphylaxis.

So, for all you diabolical GMs out there that have veteran players and you want to throw them a curve ball... Enjoy.
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CanRay
post Aug 12 2010, 04:04 PM
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Although I haven't written in awhile, the combination of Blood and Toxic magic plays a theme in my stories.
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Neraph
post Aug 12 2010, 04:05 PM
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Well don't be afraid to add Insect now too! Bwahahaha!
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treehugger
post Aug 12 2010, 05:09 PM
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Is it Flying/Trample/First Strike too ? (sorry have been playing a few games of Magic after maybe 10 or 15 years)
Seriously, how would a mage have all those metamagic techniques ?
It like saying : i'm a guy from Krypton, that gets bitten by a mutated spider and i happen to own a power armor ... in a super hero game ...
It doesnt make sense.
I like to believe that a corrupted mage serves onlyone master. He already sold his soul to one devil, he cant sell it again.
Anyway, it's your game, just believe it's a bit over the top ...
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Neraph
post Aug 12 2010, 05:12 PM
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What if the "master" that this corrupted mage serves is the same devil that knows blood magic? Can you point me to a rule that specifically states that mages can't have Initiation Metamagics that they qualify for? What if said mage doesn't serve any master and has developed his own unique style?

This is perfectly valid.
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pbangarth
post Aug 12 2010, 05:26 PM
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Sounds like play time for THIS BUNCH.
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Sephiroth
post Aug 12 2010, 05:28 PM
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Goodness gracious Neraph, you have quite a knack for this sort of thing. I love it completely. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif) With regards to #3. CAN you bind insect spirits? I may be wrong about this, but I was under the impression that it was nigh impossible to bind free spirits from the deep metaplanes, as its unknown whether things like shedim and insect spirits even have True Names and all that jazz.
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Mooncrow
post Aug 12 2010, 05:28 PM
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Hrm, I wonder what the Draco Foundation would pay for one of those guys? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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LurkerOutThere
post Aug 12 2010, 05:30 PM
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Occasionally the bad guys team up, I don't foresee such a scenario that far fetched.
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Sephiroth
post Aug 12 2010, 05:30 PM
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QUOTE (pbangarth @ Aug 12 2010, 05:26 PM) *
Sounds like play time for THIS BUNCH.


Hell yes.
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Neraph
post Aug 13 2010, 04:23 AM
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QUOTE (Sephiroth @ Aug 12 2010, 11:28 AM) *
Goodness gracious Neraph, you have quite a knack for this sort of thing. I love it completely. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif) With regards to #3. CAN you bind insect spirits? I may be wrong about this, but I was under the impression that it was nigh impossible to bind free spirits from the deep metaplanes, as its unknown whether things like shedim and insect spirits even have True Names and all that jazz.

Ahhh, I bask in your praise.

With more seriousness: yes, you can bind them. They have their own tradition, and a metamagic technique to turn a nymph into a queen which involves binding it.

That notwithstanding, the standard Banish/Summon rules would put one of any spirit under your control, which you can then bind at your discretion.
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Critias
post Aug 13 2010, 05:06 AM
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QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Aug 12 2010, 01:30 PM) *
Occasionally the bad guys team up, I don't foresee such a scenario that far fetched.

Meh, nevermind.

If it works for your game, knock yourself out.
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toturi
post Aug 13 2010, 08:16 AM
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A toxic blood mage is certainly possible. Blood is a Twisted path, not completely Toxic. So the mage could have learnt Blood on his way to being Toxic.
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Sephiroth
post Aug 13 2010, 12:30 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Aug 13 2010, 04:23 AM) *
Ahhh, I bask in your praise.

With more seriousness: yes, you can bind them. They have their own tradition, and a metamagic technique to turn a nymph into a queen which involves binding it.

That notwithstanding, the standard Banish/Summon rules would put one of any spirit under your control, which you can then bind at your discretion.


Fascinating. So then, using this idea, you could have a bound toxic blood master shedim under your control, correct? That's... really scary. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)
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Summerstorm
post Aug 13 2010, 12:46 PM
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QUOTE (Sephiroth @ Aug 13 2010, 02:30 PM) *
Fascinating. So then, using this idea, you could have a bound toxic blood master shedim under your control, correct? That's... really scary. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)

Well, no you can't.

Shedim cannot be bound. They are exempt from the "Yeah, just banish it and it's your pokemon if you want".
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Sephiroth
post Aug 13 2010, 01:25 PM
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QUOTE (Summerstorm @ Aug 13 2010, 12:46 PM) *
Well, no you can't.

Shedim cannot be bound. They are exempt from the "Yeah, just banish it and it's your pokemon if you want".


And why would that be? Are they just special like that?
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CanRay
post Aug 13 2010, 01:36 PM
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QUOTE (Sephiroth @ Aug 13 2010, 08:25 AM) *
And why would that be? Are they just special like that?

No, they're badass like that.

I once pointed out that they could tattoo a picture of Muhammad on Muftis and get away with it. You really think they're going to let some Alley-Punk Shaman bind them?
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toturi
post Aug 13 2010, 01:41 PM
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QUOTE (Sephiroth @ Aug 13 2010, 09:25 PM) *
And why would that be?

Because the rules say so.

Under The Nature of Shedim
Shedim... cannot normally be summoned or bound.
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Sephiroth
post Aug 13 2010, 03:06 PM
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QUOTE (toturi @ Aug 13 2010, 01:41 PM) *
Because the rules say so.

Under The Nature of Shedim
Shedim... cannot normally be summoned or bound.

Fair enough. But if you (or a very nasty NPC - that lovely Darke fellow comes to mind) were to go on a long and ridiculously difficult metaplanar quest to find a master shedim's True Name (if they have them), could you not summon and bind it then? IIRC, summoning a spirit using its True Name is not considered normal summoning, as even a mundane can do it.
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CanRay
post Aug 13 2010, 03:09 PM
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Yeah, I'm sure that the person holding the True Names of the Shedim are even worse than they are.

Good luck tricking the Devil, son. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Neraph
post Aug 13 2010, 03:19 PM
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Yeah, I don't like shedim, not because they're scary, but because they are exempt from the normal rules because the developers thought they should be scary.

I "grew up" in a game where you wouldn't blink twice fighting two F8 shedim plus PR6 groupies, so I've become a little jaded. One F6 beast spirit and I start yawning.
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treehugger
post Aug 13 2010, 03:20 PM
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QUOTE (Sephiroth @ Aug 13 2010, 11:06 AM) *
Fair enough. But if you (or a very nasty NPC - that lovely Darke fellow comes to mind) were to go on a long and ridiculously difficult metaplanar quest to find a master shedim's True Name (if they have them), could you not summon and bind it then? IIRC, summoning a spirit using its True Name is not considered normal summoning, as even a mundane can do it.

I'm pretty sure a master shedim is a horror spawn. So should you be able to get to their plane, you would not be able to come back, or you'd come back with the apocalypse following behind you.
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Neraph
post Aug 13 2010, 03:29 PM
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QUOTE (treehugger @ Aug 13 2010, 09:20 AM) *
I'm pretty sure a master shedim is a horror spawn. So should you be able to get to their plane, you would not be able to come back, or you'd come back with the apocalypse following behind you.

Assuming of course Earthdawn and Shadowrun are the same. The developers have held consistancy, I know, but I think they do it because they enjoy watching the conspiracy theorists.
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CanRay
post Aug 13 2010, 03:56 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Aug 13 2010, 10:29 AM) *
Assuming of course Earthdawn and Shadowrun are the same. The developers have held consistancy, I know, but I think they do it because they enjoy watching the conspiracy theorists.

Everyone's got to have a hobby.
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Sephiroth
post Aug 13 2010, 04:03 PM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Aug 13 2010, 03:09 PM) *
Yeah, I'm sure that the person holding the True Names of the Shedim are even worse than they are.

Good luck tricking the Devil, son. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)





I never said that I'd try this as a PC. As Neraph pointed out in the OP, something like this is designed for GMs to throw curveballs at veterans. Thus it is intended to be solely in the domain of really scary NPC's... and I would remind you that there are plenty of maniacs in the 6th World that would be all to willing to make a deal with the Devil and/or bring about the apocalypse (Mr. Darke and the toxics, I'm looking at you).
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