Metal storm...again, Where are they now? Options

[Yerameyahu]

Depends on the body. I say minimum 6, and the Otomo is a special case, so I wouldn't count it. That means Large drones.

[sabs]

Depends on the body. I say minimum 6, and the Otomo is a special case, so I wouldn't count it. That means Large drones.

That's a house judgement call (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) not actually the rules as written.
It's a reinforced heavy turret. So that's 2 weapon mount slots according to the rules? Which I guess would be a 6 body.

[Yerameyahu]

I meant that the Otomo is the only drone smaller than Large with the rules-required 6 Body, that's all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Being a humanoid mimic, the Otomo can hardly mount a Main Gun. Even if you allow it, that's the *only* Medium drone that works (AFAIK, of course). No worries. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Doc Chase]

Doc Chase, you *know* how stupid that statement is. This is Shadowrun. Neraph is *at this moment* munchkin-ing up the Fomori Ghoul Mystic Adept required to *make* it man portable. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Nnnngh. Hate. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

It has six arms, of course. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) And prehensile genitalia for reloading *cuz the rules don't say they can't*. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Mooncrow]

It has six arms, of course. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) And prehensile genitalia for reloading *cuz the rules don't say they can't*. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Oh god, need the brain bleach, nowwwwww!

Seriously, I hate you, that image is going to be stuck in my head all day (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[X-Kalibur]

It has six arms, of course. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) And prehensile genitalia for reloading *cuz the rules don't say they can't*. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

That is incredible, I'm making one now.

[Yerameyahu]

Be sure to get cyber-tattoos that say, 'The Rules Don't Say I Can't'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Sengir]

Patents are "moar dakka and flashy explosions".

A successful patent filing has NOTHING to do with practicability. There have even been patents granted for stuff like anti-gravity devices requiring infinite energy.

However this patent should address that if you don't feel like reading through the Metal Storm patents.

OK, if I understand that legalese correctly what they are sealing the barrel behind each projectile, to prevent the porpellant gasses from cooking off the projectiles behind the one currently fired...makes sense.

So unless I understand pressure and physics incorrectly. If I apply pressure to something it should very well compress, thus reducing the dimension which is having the pressure applied.

Just take a syringe full of water, block the opening and then try to compress it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Strictly speaking you will compress it, just like you (regardless of your weight) bend a concrete wall when leaning against it. However, in both cases the effect is neglectibly small.

[StealthSigma]

Strictly speaking you will compress it, just like you (regardless of your weight) bend a concrete wall when leaning against it. However, in both cases the effect is neglectibly small.

How much you can compress a solid is related to how that solid behaves. If it's inelastic, like concrete, it's not going to move. It's just going to heat up as you apply pressure. If it's elastic like rubber, it'll deform quite a bit, but it will return to its original shape. If it's plastic, like plastic explosives, wet clay, or Play Doh. It's quite malleable and will not return to its original shape unless you force it to that shape. The propellant for metal storm is most likely more like a plastic explosive and probably exhibits plastic behavior just like plastic explosives. If it was inelastic, it wouldn't create a seal at all. If it was elastic the seal would be temporary and wouldn't guarantee to be there for the entirety of the hot gases.

Either way, the compressed distance could not be negligible otherwise they wouldn't need design methods for the electronic firing system to account for rearward drift in the ammunition.

[Sengir]

How much you can compress a solid is related to how that solid behaves. If it's inelastic, like concrete, it's not going to move. It's just going to heat up as you apply pressure. If it's elastic like rubber, it'll deform quite a bit, but it will return to its original shape. If it's plastic, like plastic explosives, wet clay, or Play Doh. It's quite malleable and will not return to its original shape unless you force it to that shape. The propellant for metal storm is most likely more like a plastic explosive and probably exhibits plastic behavior just like plastic explosives. If it was inelastic, it wouldn't create a seal at all. If it was elastic the seal would be temporary and wouldn't guarantee to be there for the entirety of the hot gases.

You are apparently confusing plastic deformation (taking a ball of putty and forming it into a dice shape) and compression (taking a ball of putty and applying pressure so that its volume decreases). Some reading material for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young%27s_modulus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shear_modulus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulk_modulus

[StealthSigma]

You are apparently confusing plastic deformation (taking a ball of putty and forming it into a dice shape) and compression (taking a ball of putty and applying pressure so that its volume decreases). Some reading material for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young%27s_modulus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shear_modulus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulk_modulus

At this point, you're arguing semantics. Whether through compression, deformation, or a combination of the two the end result is the same. There is a non-negligible rearward shift in the ammunition that requires the design to account for that aspect. This rearward shift means that each bullet is going to have more barrel distance, even if it's a few micrometers to add additional spin to the round as well as increase the time in the barrel causing a marginal increase muzzle velocity. Beyond that, there isn't anything that states that compression does not occur. While I may have chosen my wording poorly, the system is designed to create a seal through deformation. However the propellant may also marginally compress as well which may be a nice side effect, but I'm not going to try to wade into the topic that is internal ballistics to try to figure out how the pressure from previous rounds affect latter rounds.

[Sengir]

At this point, you're arguing semantics.

No, I'm talking about two fundamentally different things: If the round is compressed, it just gets shorter. If the round is deformed, it gets shorter but the diameter increases (which means there needs to be enough space for that). Also, the energy required for these two things is slightly different, thus my original question.


But you are correct in one point, reading the patent application provided some enlightenment about what is deformed and where:
Wedging systems generally form seals by interaction between successive projectiles in a stack. An axial force down the barrel causes the interaction either when the stack is loaded in a barrel or when projectiles are fired from the barrel, or both. The interaction causes a collar or tail on each projectile to expand into tight contact with the bore of the barrel, preventing blow-back past that point. Depending on the pressures involved, the expanding part of each projectile is typically a soft metal or plastic which deforms into a circumferential contact with the barrel.

[Kruger]

From what I've recall of metal storm weapons, they make up for the barrel length by adding more barrels, thus reducing the number of projectiles that are loaded in each barrel. If the weapon is 12 rounds, they'll have 4 barrels of three rounds each and it would be of similar length to modern handguns. However, you also have to consider that each bullet that is fired from the barrel extends the barrel length -more- than the length of the round + propellant since that will cause the propellant of the rounds following it to be compressed.

This is correct for Metal Storm. I was referring to applying Metal Storm technology to the SR gun the YSF, since that is obviously what that gun is trying to duplicate.

Regardless, you're correct that the technology just isn't practical for personal weapons.

[ZeroPoint]

Shiawase Armaments Mythic Line
This new line of electronically firing weapons utilizes a special loading mechanism in each of its weapons. A breach loading system where the weapon opens at the rear of the barrel, and an ammo tube which fills the rear portion of the barrel is removed. The ammo tube is a lightweight composite material designed to withstand the high pressures created from the gun and create a tight seal with the breach and barrel of the weapon. Ammo tubes can be easily preloaded with the case-less ammunition, but does taking longer than loading standard clips. Modern case-less ammunition is far less fragile than its predecessors, but still must be loaded with care lest the round be damaged during loading. When loading the ammo tubes into the weapon through the breach mechanism, a number of tubes can be loaded as a complex action equal to (Agility / 2).

When it comes to recoil, these weapons can fire at such high rates that many bullets can be fired before any recoil is felt at all by firer and any barrel lift is noticed. All of the following weapons have the capability of firing UltraFast Bursts (UFB). When firing a UFB, the recoil is applied to the following attack instead. However, since the recoil of all the bullets is felt simultaneously, any uncompensated recoil is doubled. To help compensate for that, the barrel and tube assembly uses a special hydraulic system that not only provides pressure to maintain the breach seal, but also provides one (1) point of recoil compensation.

Many of the weapons capable of fully automatic fire also have the ability to fire in high velocity firing modes. Such weapons are given the HV firing mode designation.

Some weapons also have unique firing modes due to their barrel arrangements or other factors. Such weapons have a SPECIAL firing mode designation.

As state of the art weapons, all are designed with an integral smartgun system to allow greater control for the wielder, and are treated as having the electronic firing modification. Being completely electronically controlled, the daring may attempt to modify the firing computers to allow faster or additional firing rates that are not listed. For example, a cunning individual could modify the Cerberus Heavy Pistol to fire standard bursts, as well as giving it full auto capability. They could also design it to fire all of its rounds with a single trigger pull in only a split-second. The later mod however would be certain suicide however as the barrels are not designed to be able to withstand the amount of pressure such an action would produce. Any modification that causes the weapon to fire more than 3 rounds as a UFB forces the user to make an edge test every time the weapon is fired with a threshold equal to (number of rounds fired). Failure indicates a breach seal failure and ignites all remaining rounds in the barrel without first firing their boost charges, causing the rounds to remain in the barrel or even fire through the breached seal and causing a potentially lethal blow back. The weapon explodes dealing (4 + number of rounds fired)P damage to the wielder and is resisted with Ballistic armor.

Since these are specially designed prototype releases that have very exact specifications, they only accept [3] capacity worth of modifications. However, any Firing selection change mods have no materials or capacity cost and just require the extended test to perform the modification. Any barrel mounted accessories must be specially designed, tripling their cost (for each barrel).



Chimera
Assault Rifle __________________ 6P _________ -1 _______ SA/BF/FA/UFB/HV __________ 16(b) x2
Shotgun _____________________ 7P _________ -1 _______ SA/BF/UFB ________________ 5(b)
Grenade launcher __________ as grenade ________________ SA ______________________ 3(b)

This prototype assault rifle is built in a bullpup configuration that has 3 barrels placed in an over-under design, with the top two
barrels being the same caliber and nearly the same length (the top barrel is set one half inch farther) and the third barrel being
larger caliber and coming approximately 3 inches shorter. Rather than using a standard magazine, the bullets are stacked in-line in
each of the top two barrels which allows for the firing of ultra-fast short bursts. Bullets must be preloaded into tubes (counts as
caseless ammunition) which can be removed and replaced with fresh ammo tubes using a breach loading system opening at the rear of
the butt. The third barrel uses the same firing and loading mechanism but is interchangeable as either a shotgun or micro-grenade
launcher and can be changed on the fly, in the field.
The AR function can fire in Semi-auto, Burst-fire or Full auto modes. In addition, it has the capability of firing short
UFBs. In this setting, the Chimera can only fire narrow bursts. The Chimera can also be set in a High Velocity mode. Since all
firing modes are electronically controlled, changing the mode to any configuration can be done quickly through the use of the
smartlink as a free action.
The shotgun may also use the UFB function. Like the AR, it can only fire narrow bursts, but uncompensated burst recoil is
tripled instead of doubled.


Cerberus
Heavy Pistol ___________ 5P ________ -1 _____________SA/UFB __________________ 5(b) x3

This prototype heavy pistol uses a unique 3 barrel design, placed in an inverted triangular pattern. Rather than using a
standard magazine, the bullets are stacked in-line in each of the three barrels which allows for the firing of ultra-fast
short bursts. Bullets must be preloaded into tubes (counts as caseless ammunition) which can be removed and replaced with
fresh ammo tubes using a breach loading system. The Cerberus may only fire narrow burst.


Hydra
Light Pistol __________ 4P ________ -- ___________ SA/BF/UFB/SPECIAL _________ 5(b) x5

This prototype light pistol is the Cross counter to the Yamaha Sakura Fubuki. The unique design uses 5 barrels stacked
vertically. Rather than using a standard magazine, the bullets are stacked in-line in each of the 5 barrels which allows for the
firing of ultra-fast bursts. Bullets must be preloaded into tubes (counts as caseless ammunition) which can be removed and replaced
with fresh ammo tubes using a breach loading system.
It also has a special Long Burst mode but fires 5 rounds (1 from each barrel) for each burst instead of 6 for a +4 DV a
recoil penalty of -4. The Hydra can only fire narrow burst (short or long bursts).



Hydra LE
Machine Pistol ______ 4P ______ - ___________ SA/BF/UFB/FA/HV/SPECIAL __________ 7(b) x5

This prototype machine pistol is a modified version of the Hydra Light Pistol with a slightly larger profile and detachable
folding stock. The unique design uses 5 barrels stacked vertically. Rather than using a standard magazine, the bullets are stacked
in-line in each of the 5 barrels which allows for the firing of ultra-fast short bursts. Bullets must be preloaded into tubes
(counts as caseless ammunition) which can be removed and replaced with fresh ammo tubes using a breach loading system.
The Hydra LE has all the normal firing modes as listed as well as one additional ultra-fast short burst (UFB) setting.
In this setting, the Hydra can only fire narrow burst (short bursts), but fires 5 rounds for each burst instead of 3 for a +4 DV
(and -4 recoil penalty). It still uses normal burst fire recoil rules.
The Hydra LE also has the capability to function as a High Velocity weapon.


Orthrus
Sniper Rifle _________ 7P ___________ -3 ________ SA/BF/UFB __________ 5(b) x2

This prototype sniper rifle utilizes a unique design featuring 2 barrels placed side-by-side, though an over-under configuration has been proposed as a future porduction model. Rather than using a standard magazine, the bullets are stacked in-line in each of the 2 barrels which allows for the firing of ultra-fast short bursts. Bullets must be preloaded into tubes (counts as caseless ammunition) which can be removed and replaced with fresh ammo tubes using a breach
loading system.
The Orthrus has all the normal firing modes as listed as well as one additional ultra-fast burst (UFB) setting. In this
setting, the Orthrus can only fire narrow bursts. Includes a specialized imaging scope and smartgun system that corrects the minor
differences in trajectories for each barrel. It utilizes the advanced smartgun system, along with an improved range-finder to adjust the barrels in/out/up/down based on detected range of sited/locked target.


Balaur
Shotgun _______ 7P ________ -1 __________ SA/BF/UFB/FA _______________ 6(b) x3
Grenade ____ As grenade ________________ SA/BF/UFB __________________ 4(b) x3

This prototype shotgun uses a unique 3 barrel design, placed in an inverted triangular pattern. Rather than using a
standard magazine, the rounds are stacked in-line in each of the three barrels which allows for the firing of ultra-fast short
bursts. Bullets must be preloaded into tubes (counts as caseless ammunition) which can be removed and replaced with fresh ammo
tubes using a breach loading system.
The Balaur has all the normal firing modes as listed as well as one additional ultra-fast burst (UFB) setting.
In this setting, the Balaur can only fire narrow bursts. The Balaur can fire slug or flechettes. A special choke switch can adjust
each of the 3 barrels simultaneously or individually, and can be done either manually or through the smartlink.
The Balaur may come with an optional set of replacement barrels that allow it to fire Micro-grenades. The shotgun and grenade barrels can be used simultaneously and interchangeably. However, using a mixed load out disables the UFB and FA firing modes for the shotgun, and the BF and UFB modes for the grenade launcher.
The immense amount of recoil created by using the UFB settings means any uncompensated recoil is tripled on any following shot instead of doubled.

Triglav
SMG __________ 5P _________ -- ______ SA/BF/FA/UFB/HV _____________ 14(b) x3

This prototype SMG uses a unique 3 barrel design, with the barrels stacked vertically. Rather than using a standard
magazine, the bullets are stacked in-line in each of the three barrels which allows for the firing of ultra-fast short bursts.
Bullets must be preloaded into tubes (counts as caseless ammunition) which can be removed and replaced with fresh ammo tubes
using a breach loading system.
The Triglav has all the normal firing modes as listed as well as one additional ultra-fast short burst (UFB) setting.
In this setting, the Triglav can only fire narrow bursts. It also may be adjusted to operate as a High Velocity weapon.


[edit]Removed the codebox because it was annoying, even though it makes the stat blocks harder to read. Also added text that was somehow not saved[/edit]
[edit]added more text and will be more edits to stat blocks when I get the time. Mostly recoil amounts. [/edit]

[StealthSigma]

Orthrus
Sniper Rifle _________ 7P ___________ -3 ________ SA/BF/UFB __________ 5(b) x2

This prototype sniper rifle utilizes a unique design featuring 2 barrels placed side-by-side. Rather than using a standard
magazine, the bullets are stacked in-line in each of the 2 barrels which allows for the firing of ultra-fast short bursts. Bullets
must be preloaded into tubes (counts as caseless ammunition) which can be removed and replaced with fresh ammo tubes using a breach
loading system.
The Orthrus has all the normal firing modes as listed as well as one additional ultra-fast burst (UFB) setting. In this
setting, the Orthrus can only fire narrow bursts. Includes a specialized imaging scope and smartgun system that corrects the minor
differences in trajectories for each barrel.

The bolded line made me laugh. This weapon needs to have its range increments adjusted downward. Unless the bursts are fired from a single barrel and do not alternate between barrels, this weapon cannot adjust for the trajectory differences with a smartgun system alone. Over 1500 you probably will get some pretty heavy divergence between two barrels. In order to deliver the rounds with precision you would need to zero the weapon for a certain distance. This was always the weapon I was most leery of you creating. It just doesn't fit well with the roles for which a sniper rifle is utilized. Metal Storm never struck me as an ammo system (in a multibarrel configuration) for sniper rifles. The stacked caseless ammunition, in a single barrel, worked mostly for the reason that you aren't loading each round with a bolt action or ejecting cases from a semi-auto (stealth reasons).

[ZeroPoint]

The idea is that each of the barrels are not necessarily fixed to eachother. With micro-actuators along the barrels, it utilizes the advanced smartgun system, along with an improved range-finder (which i forgot to add in the text) to adjust the barrels in/out/up/down based on detected range of sited/locked target. Idea being that no matter what the range is, the barrels auto-matically zero so that they strike at almost the same location.

But aside from that, you would be right in that as far as sniper rifles are concerned it would be toward the bottom of the scale in terms of reliability and accuracy, but still within the realm of sniper rifles. The advanced smartgun/scope/minor barrel adjustmant system makes adjusting windage/elevation *somewhat* automatic, which would make this gun's primary selling target novice snipers anyway. As I said, all of the weapons are not necessarily good, but designed to use their strengths, and many of the design implamentations were designed to overcome shortcomings wherever they may be. The line was largely envisioned as a marketing decision, and the engineers were forced to make it work as well as possible in spite of difficulties.

[KarmaInferno]

Most of the Metal Storm weapons seem to be focused on area denial anyhow.




-k

[ZeroPoint]

Indeed. However SR already set a precident for the systems use for personal firearms via the yamaha sakura fubuki. This is just a competetors attempt take some of the market created through it.

Also, there are a few other designs that were created but havn't made it past prototyping yet. These were a little more radical and were designed to make use of its ability in area denial in a man-portable system.

[jakephillips]

I like the fubiki, good gun but need 4 silencers!