IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

3 Pages V   1 2 3 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Bad Karma
simonw2000
post Mar 3 2004, 12:15 PM
Post #1


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 402
Joined: 23-April 03
From: London, UK
Member No.: 4,491



Anyone know if it's canon or not? If so, can you tell me where to find it? :vegm:
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Burning One
post Mar 3 2004, 12:24 PM
Post #2


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 84
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Toronto, Canada
Member No.: 2,067



Aye Bad Karma is a character flaw which can be found in the Shadowrun Companion. Oddly enough, in the flaws section.

TBO
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ancient History
post Mar 3 2004, 12:29 PM
Post #3


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 6,748
Joined: 5-July 02
Member No.: 2,935



Bad Karma has sometimes been called the Power Gamer's Flaw; Cursed Karma is a bit better in terms of effect.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mfb
post Mar 3 2004, 01:38 PM
Post #4


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 11,410
Joined: 1-October 03
From: Pittsburgh
Member No.: 5,670



bad karma is for stupid powergamers. karma pool is what seperates the men from the dead men; trading half of it off for 5 measly creation points is nowhere near being worth the cost.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Siege
post Mar 3 2004, 01:45 PM
Post #5


Dragon
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,065
Joined: 16-January 03
From: Fayetteville, NC
Member No.: 3,916



Truthfully, I never use my karma pool that much.

-Siege
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ancient History
post Mar 3 2004, 02:05 PM
Post #6


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 6,748
Joined: 5-July 02
Member No.: 2,935



Powergamers take the Bad Karma flaw (and Cursed Karma) so that less Good Karma is taken into the Easy-to-Burn Karma Pool. Unfortunately, Cursed Karma tends to come back to bite said gamers in the ass.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Burning One
post Mar 3 2004, 02:39 PM
Post #7


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 84
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Toronto, Canada
Member No.: 2,067



Personally I find that I only use Karma Pool as an emergency backup plan. Usually one or two re-rolls during a game is more than enough. If I require more than that then I seriously f**ked up somewhere along the way and no amount of Karma Pool is going go save me.

Besides, depending on the character's background or history the idea of bad karma isn't entirely unreasonable.

I tend to agree that Cursed Karma can be a bit more dangerous but for some character's it just makes sense. You can't tell me that you've never met a person who alternatively has either stunningly good luck or stunningly bad luck with little middle ground. One day they'll be on top of the world and the next they'll be the doormat for the planet.

Saying that one or both flaws are for powergamers exclusively is a rather ignorant thing to say. While it's true that many players with see either flaw as a quick way to grab character points there are easily an equal number who took one or the other because it made sense given the character concept or background. But regardless I'm sure we'll have time to discuss this once you step down from your high horse and feel like dealing with us mere mortals again.

TBO
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shockwave_IIc
post Mar 3 2004, 02:50 PM
Post #8


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,512
Joined: 16-August 03
From: Northampton
Member No.: 5,499



QUOTE (Ancient History @ Mar 3 2004, 12:29 PM)
Bad Karma has sometimes been called the Power Gamer's Flaw; Cursed Karma is a bit better in terms of effect.

*looks at his characters one with Bad Karma (An Ork, now retired) the other yet to be played has cursed Karma (also an Ork)*

Personaly i also thought Bad Karma was very limiting Cos untill you get your skills to a point where your unlikly to fail you'd be pulling on that half sized Karma Pool quite alot.

Cursed i thought would be funny to take for an unsuperstious(sp?) character
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cray74
post Mar 3 2004, 03:29 PM
Post #9


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,428
Joined: 9-June 02
Member No.: 2,860



QUOTE (mfb)
bad karma is for stupid powergamers. karma pool is what seperates the men from the dead men; trading half of it off for 5 measly creation points is nowhere near being worth the cost.

I wouldn't quite put it that strongly, but the amount of times I've needed my karma pool in game has convinced me never to take Bad Karma. There's too often when I'm fighting a very powerful foe that I need karma pool, or when Something Goes Wrong™ with a weak opponent that will just wreck the rest of the adventure if I don't "re-do." And when my PCs' karma pool gets above 10, I begin feeling I have a really potent, experienced character, moreso than is indicated by skills (which probably haven't budged much on magical PCs) or equipment (which anyone can have).

Anyway, IMO, Bad Karma is either for min-maxers who aren't looking too far ahead beyond character creation, or for masochist Real Roleplayers who like to play disadvantaged and/or cursed PCs.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
toturi
post Mar 3 2004, 04:36 PM
Post #10


Canon Companion
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 8,021
Joined: 2-March 03
From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG
Member No.: 4,187



My PCs have done well without using Karma Pool, since they usually make sure their PCs are well-built and well-min-maxed.

The problem with Karma Pool is that it refreshes at GM's discretion. There is no fixed Canon refresh rate and I am very harsh with Karma refresh. I've even ran one campaign with no refreshes before. Having Bad Karma in my games is good, since low refresh punishes people who rely on Karma or in a RP sense "luck" or "experience" rather than skill and tactics.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ShadowGhost
post Mar 3 2004, 05:06 PM
Post #11


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 376
Joined: 14-July 03
Member No.: 4,928



I like bad Karma. In games I run, I never allow my PCs to ever have more than 5 Karma pool. Period. This makes sure the players think things through more, and do more planning, instead of looking at buttloads of Karma Pool and thinking they can do anything with enough re-rolls.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BitBasher
post Mar 3 2004, 05:48 PM
Post #12


Traumatizing players since 1992
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 3,282
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Las Vegas, NV
Member No.: 220



In my games players dont accumulate that much karma pool because sooner or later theyre burning it to survive. My players have never even seriously considered Bad Karma or Cursed Karma because it will sooner or later undoubtedly mean their demise. They use their karma pool often, and to save their bacon. SRing is a very dangerous occupation and their use of Karma Pool reflects this.

In fact, if my players heard someone say they rarely used carma pool they would tell you you're playing in a game very, very different from theirs. They usually roll their eyes at a statement like that, but hey... every GM runs differently.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Rev
post Mar 3 2004, 06:10 PM
Post #13


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 675
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Seattle
Member No.: 2,034



But bad karma is such a juicy flaw.

It's 2 points of body and one of skill. :)
Thats a lot of karma pool rerolls you never have to make.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
John Campbell
post Mar 3 2004, 09:50 PM
Post #14


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,028
Joined: 9-November 02
From: The Republic of Vermont
Member No.: 3,581



I assume that all you people who are talking about what an awful Flaw Bad Karma is never play metahumans?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Zazen
post Mar 3 2004, 10:08 PM
Post #15


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,685
Joined: 17-August 02
Member No.: 3,123



Metahumans can have bad karma too, y'know.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shockwave_IIc
post Mar 3 2004, 10:09 PM
Post #16


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,512
Joined: 16-August 03
From: Northampton
Member No.: 5,499



Yup! sure can.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Wish
post Mar 3 2004, 11:08 PM
Post #17


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 38
Joined: 23-February 03
Member No.: 4,142



For humans, i don't see Bad Karma as being all that bad. They're at the same KP rate as metahumans then, and get 5 build points to show for it. For a metahuman, it's absolutely awful.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
simonw2000
post Mar 3 2004, 11:22 PM
Post #18


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 402
Joined: 23-April 03
From: London, UK
Member No.: 4,491



There's a version SOMEWHERE that punishes characters for doing stuff like shooting people in the back and not helping others if there's a single possibility that they could. Where can I find that?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BitBasher
post Mar 3 2004, 11:23 PM
Post #19


Traumatizing players since 1992
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 3,282
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Las Vegas, NV
Member No.: 220



QUOTE
I assume that all you people who are talking about what an awful Flaw Bad Karma is never play metahumans?
In my games metahumans can buy a 5 point edge name Karmic Balance that makes their karma pool equal to humans. It's the exact opposite of Bad Karma. I have never, ever, had an PC make a metahuman without that edge.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
toturi
post Mar 4 2004, 12:41 AM
Post #20


Canon Companion
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 8,021
Joined: 2-March 03
From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG
Member No.: 4,187



I do not give out much karma, so players in my group learn to treasure their karma and would rather not have their karma pool suck up the karma they need to initiate/increase stat/etc. In fact, my metahuman Awakened PCs all have Bad Karma. It is a requirement. It could well mean one more run at a lower Magic point and no metamagic technique.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mfb
post Mar 4 2004, 02:35 AM
Post #21


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 11,410
Joined: 1-October 03
From: Pittsburgh
Member No.: 5,670



i think things through and use karma pool. i tend to have seriously bad luck, though; a typical stealth roll for me--13 dice--will come up all 5's or lower half the time. it's an incredibly rare run where my character doesn't go home with an S wound or worse.

not that i'm complaining, though. i've never gone above S+3 *knock on wood*.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fortune
post Mar 4 2004, 02:39 AM
Post #22


Immoral Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 15,247
Joined: 29-March 02
From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat
Member No.: 2,486



QUOTE (simonw2000)
There's a version SOMEWHERE that punishes characters for doing stuff like shooting people in the back and not helping others if there's a single possibility that they could. Where can I find that?

No, there isn't!

I hate the thought of Bad Karma being awarded for actions. If an actions committed by the PCs is, in your opinion, so heinous, then no (or less) Karma should be awarded. Negative, or Bad Karma has no place in the gritty and seedy Sixth World.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mfb
post Mar 4 2004, 02:41 AM
Post #23


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 11,410
Joined: 1-October 03
From: Pittsburgh
Member No.: 5,670



well, bad/negative karma as direct recompense for evil actions doesn't.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
toturi
post Mar 4 2004, 02:43 AM
Post #24


Canon Companion
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 8,021
Joined: 2-March 03
From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG
Member No.: 4,187



QUOTE (simonw2000)
There's a version SOMEWHERE that punishes characters for doing stuff like shooting people in the back and not helping others if there's a single possibility that they could. Where can I find that?

There's a version that REWARDS characters for doing stuff like shooting people in the back and not helping others if there's a single possibility that they could.

I can't find anything that actively punishes PCs for being evil other than not giving them Karma.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
RedmondLarry
post Mar 4 2004, 03:02 AM
Post #25


Senior GM
***

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 1,406
Joined: 12-April 03
From: Redmond, WA
Member No.: 4,442



Shooting someone in the back isn't evil. The US let its military Sniper program languish a few decades ago in part due to ideas like these. It just doesn't meet Western Civilization's idea of fairness, and in court it may indicate that the shooter wasn't in immediate danger from the dead guy. Hollywood also never has us see the hero shoot someone in the back, same as a dog never dies in a movie, unless it is a hero in the film and it died saving someone. Only the bad guy ever shoots at a dog in the movies.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

3 Pages V   1 2 3 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 29th March 2024 - 08:09 AM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.