Bad Karma |
Bad Karma |
Mar 3 2004, 12:15 PM
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#1
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 402 Joined: 23-April 03 From: London, UK Member No.: 4,491 |
Anyone know if it's canon or not? If so, can you tell me where to find it? :vegm:
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Mar 3 2004, 12:24 PM
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#2
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Target Group: Members Posts: 84 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Toronto, Canada Member No.: 2,067 |
Aye Bad Karma is a character flaw which can be found in the Shadowrun Companion. Oddly enough, in the flaws section.
TBO |
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Mar 3 2004, 12:29 PM
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#3
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Bad Karma has sometimes been called the Power Gamer's Flaw; Cursed Karma is a bit better in terms of effect.
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Mar 3 2004, 01:38 PM
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#4
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
bad karma is for stupid powergamers. karma pool is what seperates the men from the dead men; trading half of it off for 5 measly creation points is nowhere near being worth the cost.
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Mar 3 2004, 01:45 PM
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#5
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
Truthfully, I never use my karma pool that much.
-Siege |
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Mar 3 2004, 02:05 PM
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#6
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Powergamers take the Bad Karma flaw (and Cursed Karma) so that less Good Karma is taken into the Easy-to-Burn Karma Pool. Unfortunately, Cursed Karma tends to come back to bite said gamers in the ass.
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Mar 3 2004, 02:39 PM
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#7
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Target Group: Members Posts: 84 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Toronto, Canada Member No.: 2,067 |
Personally I find that I only use Karma Pool as an emergency backup plan. Usually one or two re-rolls during a game is more than enough. If I require more than that then I seriously f**ked up somewhere along the way and no amount of Karma Pool is going go save me.
Besides, depending on the character's background or history the idea of bad karma isn't entirely unreasonable. I tend to agree that Cursed Karma can be a bit more dangerous but for some character's it just makes sense. You can't tell me that you've never met a person who alternatively has either stunningly good luck or stunningly bad luck with little middle ground. One day they'll be on top of the world and the next they'll be the doormat for the planet. Saying that one or both flaws are for powergamers exclusively is a rather ignorant thing to say. While it's true that many players with see either flaw as a quick way to grab character points there are easily an equal number who took one or the other because it made sense given the character concept or background. But regardless I'm sure we'll have time to discuss this once you step down from your high horse and feel like dealing with us mere mortals again. TBO |
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Mar 3 2004, 02:50 PM
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#8
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 16-August 03 From: Northampton Member No.: 5,499 |
*looks at his characters one with Bad Karma (An Ork, now retired) the other yet to be played has cursed Karma (also an Ork)* Personaly i also thought Bad Karma was very limiting Cos untill you get your skills to a point where your unlikly to fail you'd be pulling on that half sized Karma Pool quite alot. Cursed i thought would be funny to take for an unsuperstious(sp?) character |
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Mar 3 2004, 03:29 PM
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#9
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
I wouldn't quite put it that strongly, but the amount of times I've needed my karma pool in game has convinced me never to take Bad Karma. There's too often when I'm fighting a very powerful foe that I need karma pool, or when Something Goes Wrong with a weak opponent that will just wreck the rest of the adventure if I don't "re-do." And when my PCs' karma pool gets above 10, I begin feeling I have a really potent, experienced character, moreso than is indicated by skills (which probably haven't budged much on magical PCs) or equipment (which anyone can have). Anyway, IMO, Bad Karma is either for min-maxers who aren't looking too far ahead beyond character creation, or for masochist Real Roleplayers who like to play disadvantaged and/or cursed PCs. |
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Mar 3 2004, 04:36 PM
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#10
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
My PCs have done well without using Karma Pool, since they usually make sure their PCs are well-built and well-min-maxed.
The problem with Karma Pool is that it refreshes at GM's discretion. There is no fixed Canon refresh rate and I am very harsh with Karma refresh. I've even ran one campaign with no refreshes before. Having Bad Karma in my games is good, since low refresh punishes people who rely on Karma or in a RP sense "luck" or "experience" rather than skill and tactics. |
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Mar 3 2004, 05:06 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 376 Joined: 14-July 03 Member No.: 4,928 |
I like bad Karma. In games I run, I never allow my PCs to ever have more than 5 Karma pool. Period. This makes sure the players think things through more, and do more planning, instead of looking at buttloads of Karma Pool and thinking they can do anything with enough re-rolls.
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Mar 3 2004, 05:48 PM
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#12
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
In my games players dont accumulate that much karma pool because sooner or later theyre burning it to survive. My players have never even seriously considered Bad Karma or Cursed Karma because it will sooner or later undoubtedly mean their demise. They use their karma pool often, and to save their bacon. SRing is a very dangerous occupation and their use of Karma Pool reflects this.
In fact, if my players heard someone say they rarely used carma pool they would tell you you're playing in a game very, very different from theirs. They usually roll their eyes at a statement like that, but hey... every GM runs differently. |
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Mar 3 2004, 06:10 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 675 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 2,034 |
But bad karma is such a juicy flaw.
It's 2 points of body and one of skill. :) Thats a lot of karma pool rerolls you never have to make. |
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Mar 3 2004, 09:50 PM
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#14
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,028 Joined: 9-November 02 From: The Republic of Vermont Member No.: 3,581 |
I assume that all you people who are talking about what an awful Flaw Bad Karma is never play metahumans?
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Mar 3 2004, 10:08 PM
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#15
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
Metahumans can have bad karma too, y'know.
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Mar 3 2004, 10:09 PM
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#16
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 16-August 03 From: Northampton Member No.: 5,499 |
Yup! sure can.
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Mar 3 2004, 11:08 PM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 38 Joined: 23-February 03 Member No.: 4,142 |
For humans, i don't see Bad Karma as being all that bad. They're at the same KP rate as metahumans then, and get 5 build points to show for it. For a metahuman, it's absolutely awful.
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Mar 3 2004, 11:22 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 402 Joined: 23-April 03 From: London, UK Member No.: 4,491 |
There's a version SOMEWHERE that punishes characters for doing stuff like shooting people in the back and not helping others if there's a single possibility that they could. Where can I find that?
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Mar 3 2004, 11:23 PM
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#19
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
In my games metahumans can buy a 5 point edge name Karmic Balance that makes their karma pool equal to humans. It's the exact opposite of Bad Karma. I have never, ever, had an PC make a metahuman without that edge.
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Mar 4 2004, 12:41 AM
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#20
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
I do not give out much karma, so players in my group learn to treasure their karma and would rather not have their karma pool suck up the karma they need to initiate/increase stat/etc. In fact, my metahuman Awakened PCs all have Bad Karma. It is a requirement. It could well mean one more run at a lower Magic point and no metamagic technique.
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Mar 4 2004, 02:35 AM
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#21
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i think things through and use karma pool. i tend to have seriously bad luck, though; a typical stealth roll for me--13 dice--will come up all 5's or lower half the time. it's an incredibly rare run where my character doesn't go home with an S wound or worse.
not that i'm complaining, though. i've never gone above S+3 *knock on wood*. |
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Mar 4 2004, 02:39 AM
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#22
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
No, there isn't! I hate the thought of Bad Karma being awarded for actions. If an actions committed by the PCs is, in your opinion, so heinous, then no (or less) Karma should be awarded. Negative, or Bad Karma has no place in the gritty and seedy Sixth World. |
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Mar 4 2004, 02:41 AM
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#23
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
well, bad/negative karma as direct recompense for evil actions doesn't.
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Mar 4 2004, 02:43 AM
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#24
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
There's a version that REWARDS characters for doing stuff like shooting people in the back and not helping others if there's a single possibility that they could. I can't find anything that actively punishes PCs for being evil other than not giving them Karma. |
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Mar 4 2004, 03:02 AM
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#25
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
Shooting someone in the back isn't evil. The US let its military Sniper program languish a few decades ago in part due to ideas like these. It just doesn't meet Western Civilization's idea of fairness, and in court it may indicate that the shooter wasn't in immediate danger from the dead guy. Hollywood also never has us see the hero shoot someone in the back, same as a dog never dies in a movie, unless it is a hero in the film and it died saving someone. Only the bad guy ever shoots at a dog in the movies.
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