[X] My Assistant

[Stahlseele]

Well, at that kind of damage, both the troll and the target get mulched into a nice red paste i guess . .
furthermore . . wait what? 1,6kilometers per turn? and a turn is what? 3 seconds?
that's more than 500m per second. that's almost double the sound of speed . . you are running MACH TWO!
Well, due to sonic boom, better add the sound elemental effect to that damage . . so either half or no armor at all ^^
Hmm . . and shattering blow or whatever helped with breaking barriers and stuff . .
"I'M THE JUGGERNAUT BITCH!"

[Badmoodguy88]

Shattering Blow I thought was a bit much. Because you need to focus before you attack. You could I guess focus your chi as you run from 80 meters back. It would be cool though. Also you could combine it with an actual elemental aura spell, but running into a wall would I think be handled like a crash and not a ram. You do full damage to the wall and yourself.

What about a ram plate? What if anything would count as one? Charging the enemy with a spear and holding a riot shield or taser shield? Combat armor? I could see it simply being impossible.

Maybe the troll is charging in for a subduing attack?

It has logic to it.

Well, at that kind of damage, both the troll and the target get mulched into a nice red paste i guess . .

Brings up a good point that these are some very high speeds we are dealing with. Also if the attack was just stun then it could never hurt a vehicle.

Human ramming into a human and each taking stun damage has some logic but it then would not make sense for them to do physical damage to vehicles. Humans ramming into people might have a positive AP and against vehicles it is even larger, but vehicles already have high armor so most ramming attacks would be stun and so ignored. Plus it makes the whole ramming rules messy.

[Badmoodguy88]

Actually I checked. For a car to do this works great. For a drone it is not so great. Most that you can just take around on the street are body 2-3. A few are 4 but you need body 6 for this to start to look appealing. Daihatsu-Caterpillar Horseman would work if you had one of its modular components. The Mitsuhama Otomo (Cyborg Anthroform Walker Drone) would work perfect but it is ungodly expensive and hard to get. Most of the large drones only have a body of 4. The exception is Mitsuhama Tomino (Cyborg Walker Combat Drone) with a body of 10 but of course that thing is already murder on two gigantic legs.

[killfr3nzy]

Man I'm tired. Scrolled past this casually, then very quickly back up.
Needless to say, it turns out you weren't building 'The Murder Mime'.

[Badmoodguy88]

Hmmm

[Stahlseele]

Easy enough, make him an adept with volountary geas of not speaking.

[Simon Kerimov]

Well, the sound wave is traveling behind him, so they appear to be silent. They are sort of a Mach-something murder mime.

[Stahlseele]

Hmm . . did not think of that . . give him green skin, big teef, goring horns, bathe him in blood or paint him red and the people won't even hear the war cry of WAAAAGHHH! before he hits them O.o

[Yerameyahu]

Someone asked: no, I'd never allow the ramming rules (which already suck) to be used for non-vehicles.

[killfr3nzy]

If you wanted something that ran through people, then use a Rigger.
If you wanted a 'StreetSumo', use a Troll, maybe Fomori with Martial Arts in subdual holds and that thing where Sweep attacks can cause damage - rp'd by tackling him to the ground with your weight on top.

[Badmoodguy88]

It seemed like an interesting way to have a character that could do some damage with out dumping a lot of points into a combat skill. Plus I like the idea of someone who avoids barriers and opposition though speed and thinking outside the box by jumping over, running around, or breaking through it.

I still think they should do some multiple of body damage but I can see that it is a bit broken to have metahuman body translate to vehicular body. Body is both resilience and to some degree mass. Ram damage should be mostly about mass, but that it to tediously complicated to keep track of. This might help things not be broken and still allow it to be used for people.

Totally made up house rule.
Metahuman effective Vehicular body**
Pixie sized 1 body
Gnome 2 body
Human, Dwarf, Elf, Ork Sized 3 body
Troll sized 4 body.
**Being in combat armor, having multiple cyber limbs, or otherwise being a hard object to crash into raises effective body by 1. Having an exceptionally high body near modified max may also raise effective body by a further 1 point.

METAHUMAN speed (meters/turn) damage value
1–20 Body ÷ 2 Stun damage#
21–60 Body Stun damage*#
61–200 Body x 2 Physical damage
201+ Body x 3 Physical damage
#may become physical damage if metahuman normally does physical damage in unarmed combat.
*This is a full out sprint for most people. 60 meters per 3 seconds is 44.7 miles per hour.

A GM that rules inertia does not work completely normally with the movement power might rule that it does not help with ram damage either. A lot of people rule that the movement power does not cause you to swerve out of control when you try to turn with the movement power on because that would make the power kind of useless. The same logic might also stop sonic booms and improved ram damage.

[Makki]

i like it.i just thought:
Metahuman effective Vehicular body = weight in lb / 100 (rounded normaly)

[Badmoodguy88]

i like it.i just thought:
Metahuman effective Vehicular body = weight in lb / 100 (rounded normally)

That could work too. Pixies would end up being 1 or 0 body (depending on which way you round) but that is fine. How much do they weigh? I'd say no more than 20 pounds.

You might get into some problems with shape shifters (the spell and the metatype) but really a black bear slamming into you at ~36miles per hour will kill. Add celerity and you are looking at a tun of bear hitting you at ~56 miles. That is before adding dice from running in both cases.

[Yerameyahu]

If you want, take a look at the Metahuman Body as Improvised Weapon rules… is it (Body)S? Might be a good grounding point, I dunno.

Don't forget, this is futuristic! You can't use 20lbs, you have to use 10kg. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[killfr3nzy]

It seemed like an interesting way to have a character that could do some damage with out dumping a lot of points into a combat skill.

I wouldn't allow these rules. It's like trying to save points in Astral Combat by flying at people as fast as possible. If you want to do it, do it within the rules. BP's are there to rate your effectiveness and talent, of which combat is part. And say you did have these rules - you have no 'skill' at actually hitting people, and would lose rating for trying.
So again, use the rules. Unarmed: Subdual (could go with Unarmed: Charge, but I assume you're not gonna run away and 'come back for another run'), Martial Arts, a shield (there's your ram plate: it gives armour), etc. Remember that being possessed means you lose all control and therefore skills anyway, plus the Mage uses up services for each modification-of/new orders. A better choice is to possess the armour and give the Spirit the task: Use Movement on the person wearing this armour.
Also, keep in mind that vehicles/drones are designed to crash, and come out as intact as possible. Living things in general, and meta's specificaly, aren't. So you'd take as almost as much damage as what you hit, maybe minus one or two dice - have you ever run into someone at full speed, without any 'combat skills' to avoid getting entangled and managing to roll away gracefully?

[Makki]

Improvised Melee Weapons Table (AR p 17) states
Metahuman Body
Reach 1
(BOD/2+2)S
unarmed skill
my interpretation is, this works not only for trolls hitting people with dwarves, but for pushing someone over/on/against someone else. as a consequence, one should be able to push oneself 'against' your opponent. it's just tackling, but you need the unarmed skill to not miss. i'd houserule, the tackle has to withstand at least half the damage

[Stahlseele]

Isn't there an official rule?
Under thrown people, in SR3, both took damage based on the other persons body score minus their own worn armor.

[Mäx]

Improved (Athletics) Adept Power: +7 dpm

This one maxes out at 3 and you have to take it for an invidual skill, not a skill group.

[Yerameyahu]

That's an interesting interpretation, but I think it's a bit much to call pushing someone into another person 'an improvised weapon'. All the other weapons in the list are things you *hit* someone with; there's no way both actions do the same damage. So, that breaks the crucial link in the logic chain of improvised metahuman weapon > pushing > tackling > 'ramming'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Badmoodguy88]

I think the most deadly weapon in the game is an unarmed troll phys adept swung by a melee troll phys adept. Possibly one of the few recipes for the elusive dragon chunky salsa.

[Yerameyahu]

So, what, he punches as he's swung?

[Stahlseele]

Probably, but those two are not compatible with each other.
Only boost to body for the swung body will bring up damage and mystical armor will help stage down his own damage, but nothing else will help with that.

[Yerameyahu]

Yeah, I was struggling to imagine the point. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Pretty sure you're better off just using a weapon. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Badmoodguy88]

Rocket propelled troll adept.
Str 15
Unarmed 7 + 3 improved ability.
Smashing blow
Elemental strike blast
Inertia Strike
Critical strike 9
Killing Hands 9
Rooting 9 (for staying on the rocket)

At the point of impact, going twice the speed of sounds, the deadly outstretched fist of our foolhardy speed junkie: Ogalag the Very Nearly Invincible, strikes its target and splits the atoms: causing a nuclear explosion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)

[KarmaInferno]

How about a anthroform drone made to look like a Sumotori?

Then you get to use the regular Vehicle rules.





-karma