Spirits Inhabiting Drones, Rigger Mage the Ultimate Munchkin Options

[Yerameyahu]

It's not clear that an inhabited drone *can* control itself, is it? It certainly seems munchkin-y to claim a Speed boost (for example), and then say that the spirit isn't otherwise involved in movement.

X-Calibur, yes, the game is totally broken. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) That's no reason to ignore these questions.

[X-Kalibur]

It's not a matter of ignore, it's a matter of trying to over convolute readings of rules to allow for things that are already "balanced".

[V-Origin]

The HVAR is a gun and can't move by itself.

[Yerameyahu]

No, the Guardian Spirit *carries* the HVAR.

[V-Origin]

Then how the heck are you gonna command an army of 100 guardian spirits in a coordinated attack?

The purpose of having such a high number of drones is to cover all angles of fire and you can't do that without communication with each other.

[V-Origin]

It's not clear that an inhabited drone *can* control itself, is it? It certainly seems munchkin-y to claim a Speed boost (for example), and then say that the spirit isn't otherwise involved in movement.

X-Calibur, yes, the game is totally broken. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) That's no reason to ignore these questions.

You can interpret it as the spirit enhancing/enpowering the attributes of the drone but leaving command of the drone to the drone ware.

[Yerameyahu]

You have the magical power available for 100 Guardian Sprits, and you're worried about *talking*? You can cover all angles of fire with maybe 12 drones, not 100. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

No, pattyhulez, you can't: "Likewise, a possessed bright-red SAAB Fury would be able to drive itself, but not access GridLink, use a Pilot program, or target weapons with sensors." The possessed vehicles can't use a Pilot program, or any other complex tech; it doesn't say 'the controlling spirit', but the combined 'the possessed vehicle'.

[Johnny B. Good]

You have the magical power available for 100 Guardian Sprits, and you're worried about *talking*? You can cover all angles of fire with maybe 12 drones, not 100. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

No, pattyhulez, you can't: "Likewise, a possessed bright-red SAAB Fury would be able to drive itself, but not access GridLink, use a Pilot program, or target weapons with sensors." The possessed vehicles can't use a Pilot program, or any other complex tech.

100 *Free* guardian spirits. That's bloody insane. Even if it was 100 ally spirits, it'd still be bloody insane.

[X-Kalibur]

Not mention, if you're even summoning 12 spirits of decent force you're just asking for a thor shot.

[Simon Kerimov]

6 bullets in a revolver.
Charisma 6.
Now we have the roger rabbit weapon focus.

[V-Origin]

You have the magical power available for 100 Guardian Sprits, and you're worried about *talking*? You can cover all angles of fire with maybe 12 drones, not 100. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

No, pattyhulez, you can't: "Likewise, a possessed bright-red SAAB Fury would be able to drive itself, but not access GridLink, use a Pilot program, or target weapons with sensors." The possessed vehicles can't use a Pilot program, or any other complex tech; it doesn't say 'the controlling spirit', but the combined 'the possessed vehicle'.

You ever watch the possessed car movie Christine?

Imagine a human driving that possessed SAAB. Now the spirit inside that possessed SAAB leaves control of the car to the human.

Same thing with spirits and drone ware. You are thinking that when the spirit takes over the drone, it takes over or ASSIMILATES the ware as well which is clearly not the case as the game clearly shows ware and electronics and other high-tech stuff are alien to spirits.

Thus when the spirit takes over the drone, the ware isn't assimilated by the spirit. It is still a functioning piece of equipment.

You infer the term "controlling spirit" from the sentence "The possessed vehicles can't use a Pilot program, or any other complex tech."

In the worst case scenario, take out the cpu which contains the ware before preparing the whole drone for inhabitation. Then after the spirit has taken over the drone, insert the cpu with the ware.

You will have two distinct controlling entities in one drone then. Much like the possessed SAAB with a human driver.

And yes I would worry about "talking". I would wanna end any and all battles with no casualties whatsoever.

[Simon Kerimov]

You ever watch the possessed car movie Christine?

Imagine a human driving that possessed SAAB. Now the spirit inside that possessed SAAB leaves control of the car to the human.

Same thing with spirits and drone ware. You are thinking that when the spirit takes over the drone, it takes over or ASSIMILATES the ware as well which is clearly not the case as the game clearly shows ware and electronics and other high-tech stuff are alien to spirits.

Thus when the spirit takes over the drone, the ware isn't assimilated by the spirit. It is still a functioning piece of equipment.

You infer the term "controlling spirit" from the sentence "The possessed vehicles can't use a Pilot program, or any other complex tech."

In the worst case scenario, take out the cpu which contains the ware before preparing the whole drone for inhabitation. Then after the spirit has taken over the drone, insert the cpu with the ware.

You will have two distinct controlling entities in one drone then. Much like the possessed SAAB with a human driver.

And yes I would worry about "talking". I would wanna end any and all battles with no casualties whatsoever.

Did you know that Sustained critter powers don't cause any modifiers? Engulf a drone and use it like cyberware.

[V-Origin]

you should read Street Magic matey.. nowhere did it say possessed/inhabited modifiers will be lost after some time..

[Simon Kerimov]

you should read Street Magic matey.. nowhere did it say possessed/inhabited modifiers will be lost after some time..

Inhabitation has a Special duration. Engulf has a Sustained duration. So instead of inhabiting a cyberfreak, the spirit could engulf a drone with skillwires and act like it's skin.

[Yerameyahu]

You infer the term "controlling spirit" from the sentence "The possessed vehicles can't use a Pilot program, or any other complex tech."

No, I don't. I infer that the possessed vehicle can't use a Pilot program from the line in the book that specifically says it can't. A possessed drone is a possessed vehicle; it specifically can't use a Pilot program.

[V-Origin]

No, I don't. I infer that the possessed vehicle can't use a Pilot program from the line in the book that specifically says it can't. A possessed drone is a possessed vehicle; it specifically can't use a Pilot program.

But the human driver or drone ware can use the Pilot program.

[Badmoodguy88]

All munchkin stuff aside this does make sense to do if you are from a possession tradition.

Some stuff to consider.
-The possessed drone would have a stun track because spirits have a stun track. After the spirit leaves the drone would no longer have stun damage because drones don't have a stun track, but the spirit would still have the stun damage.
-I don't know if a possessed drone could be destroyed by a mana spell but it would damage the spirit inside for sure and damage modifiers would affect both until they separated.
-For non-humanoid drones and vehicles there are not a lot of applications for using the stat boost that a possession spirit brings. Body gets used for damage resistance, knock down tests, and ramming. Reaction raises initiative. Strength helps for mechanical arms. Agility might help for handling but there are no rules for that.
-It is a little tricky to figure out what gear can be used. Things that are always on stay on. Body stabilization would probably still function, but then again maybe not. Smoke projector would probably work. It is just heating a volatile liquid and is not much different than a gun.
-Object resistance is a big issue. It is a hindrance for the spirit trying to possess something, making possession no sure thing. Also what happens to the object resistance once the drone is possessed. It is a two edged sword either way. Making it more vulnerable to hostile spells makes it less resistant to helpful spells. When possessing a human with image magnification cybereyes: the cybereyes work but the image magnification does not because it is not always on and can't be activated by thought. But if there were voice or physical controls... could they be used?

I probably missed some stuff.

Also just want to point out possessing a vessel is different than inhabiting them. They are two different powers.

[Mäx]

But the human driver or drone ware can use the Pilot program.

No it cant, as the rules state that the vehicle cant use a pilot program.
There's nothing uncertain about that statement.
The rules dont talk about the spirit, they talk about the vehicle as whole.

[V-Origin]

No it cant, as the rules state that the vehicle cant use a pilot program.
There's nothing uncertain about that statement.
The rules dont talk about the spirit, they talk about the vehicle as whole.

I hate to say this but I just found this quote in SM.

"Unlike possession spirits, hybrid form
merges can operate a direct neural interface
and the host’s cyberware (if any) continues to
function for the spirit."

"The combined entity retains all of the memories,
abilities, and skills (both Active and
Knowledge) of the host, and its appearance
is virtually indistinguishable from that of the
original vessel. A flesh form spirit is a dualnatured
creature (p. 287, SR4), has Immunity
to Normal Weapons (p. 288, SR4), any of the
vessel’s natural and augmented abilities,"

I guess that settles the part where any of the drone's mechanical/electronic devices can be used by an inhabited spirit.

[V-Origin]

double

[Mäx]

I guess that settles the part where any of the drone's mechanical/electronic devices can be used by an inhabited spirit.

Not really, as stuff that has been paid with essence are part of the natural body as far as magic is conserned.
Drones are a completdly different think,also the inhibition rules seems to be written with the assumption that the spirit is inhibiting a body(living or dead) not a drone, as they make no mention of anthink related to drones.(not trying to say that you cant inhibit drones, just that rules dont mention anythink about it)

And considering that you can only get a spirit with inhibition by creating an ally spirit(or summoning insect spirits) i dont exactly see the plan of getting an army of hybrid merge drones as a valid for a PC.

[KarmaInferno]

I think pattyhulez's point was the "Unlike possession spirits" bit.

Meaning that while hybrid merges can do all these things, possession spirits CANNOT.



-karma

[Mäx]

I think pattyhulez's point was the "Unlike possession spirits" bit.

Meaning that while hybrid merges can do all these things, possession spirits CANNOT.

Based on this and his other thread, I'm vairly certain that he's under the falce impression that possession and inhibition are the same think.

[Yerameyahu]

So, to recap:

1) Possessed vehicles can't use Pilot or any other complex tech; that's *vehicles*, not 'the possessing spirit', so there's no option for a driver or 'drone ware' to do anything.
2) Possession is not Inhabitation, and even Inhabitation can only access *cyberware* in an Essence-paid living creature (not a drone/vehicle).
3) It's incredibly hard to even get Inhabitation-powered spirits.
4) Since someone asked, Possession specifically does not increase Handling. It increases Body, Armor, and Speed. (Apparently not Accel.)
5) Because of these facts, a Possessed drone is almost certainly much less effective than a rigged or even Pilot-controlled drone, in terms of skills, available tech, comms, TacNet, etc.
6) As X-Calibur pointed out, Possession is utterly broken for almost any *other* application. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Badmoodguy88]

Sounds about right. The only real advantage to doing this would be the bonus body and immunity to normal weapons. Most other critter powers can be granted from astral. If it is more important that the drone or vehicle simply not break then it would come in handy.

Actually the other advantages would be spirits are not dumb (usually), they are fully sentient, and they can not be hacked.