Multiple Ally Spirits., Can you have them? Advantages? Disadvantages? Options

[Badmoodguy88]

I don't see any bit of fluff or rules that disallow having multiple ally spirits.
The rules are heavily slanted towards getting one and making them as powerful as you can at the start and sinking karma only into one. But I don't think there is anything stopping a mage or mystic adept from having 2, 3, or many ally spirits.

Someone in another thread said that they would turn on you but I don't think they would necessarily. As loyal as a trusted companion can be ally spirits are more so, because it is in their nature. Like a loyalty 9 contact instead of a loyalty 6 contact. Granted you would need to yo treat them well but that is the case with anyone.

Having multiple allies may mean the older ones get jealous of the attention the newer ones get, and also be unhappy that the karma has one more mouth to feed. But like any a family with multiple siblings this does not need to lead to Filicide, Mariticide or Parricide.

So what would be the advantages and disadvantages. What justification would you have for doing this. Has anyone done this?

Like my example above I could see a mage treating his allies like his children. Someone might try to raise an army of loyal solders. Another might try to build a harem. Another would just seek more allies to help them day to day and in a fight.

[Mooncrow]

I don't see any bit of fluff or rules that disallow having multiple ally spirits.
The rules are heavily slanted towards getting one and making them as powerful as you can at the start and sinking karma only into one. But I don't think there is anything stopping a mage or mystic adept from having 2, 3, or many ally spirits.

Someone in another thread said that they would turn on you but I don't think they would necessarily. As loyal as a trusted companion can be ally spirits are more so, because it is in their nature. Like a loyalty 9 contact instead of a loyalty 6 contact. Granted you would need to yo treat them well but that is the case with anyone.

Having multiple allies may mean the older ones get jealous of the attention the newer ones get, and also be unhappy that the karma has one more mouth to feed. But like any a family with multiple siblings this does not need to lead to Filicide, Mariticide or Parricide.

So what would be the advantages and disadvantages. What justification would you have for doing this. Has anyone done this?

Like my example above I could see a mage treating his allies like his children. Someone might try to raise an army of loyal solders. Another might try to build a harem. Another would just seek more allies to help them day to day and in a fight.

It's a little fuzzy, tbh - I went digging on the subject in response to the other thread. Technically the Ally Conjuration metamagic talks only in the singular and they use the word "unique" a lot, but the meaning is left a bit unclear.

On the practical side of things, spirits ramp up in power pretty steeply, not quite exponentially, but along those lines. Having multiple allies in most cases will be considerably less powerful than building one really strong spirit.

[Yerameyahu]

It's *very* infeasible to have multiple spirits, but it's not clear if the metamagic limits you to one.

The book specifically says ally spirits can turn on you. They don't *necessarily*, but it's a definite possibility. You're certainly right that they are extremely loyal (Loyalty rating 6), under normal circumstances.

If the magician becomes over-dependent on his own ally spirit or regularly endangers it, the ally may become resentful and attempt to seek its own freedom.

In addition, an ally spirit can become a reluctant servant, hindering you without actually escaping.

[Badmoodguy88]

It's a little fuzzy, tbh - I went digging on the subject in response to the other thread. Technically the Ally Conjuration metamagic talks only in the singular and they use the word "unique" a lot, but the meaning is left a bit unclear.

On the practical side of things, spirits ramp up in power pretty steeply, not quite exponentially, but along those lines. Having multiple allies in most cases will be considerably less powerful than building one really strong spirit.

Yeah, I just don't think it is impossible. Each formula is unique and each spirit is unique but I have not actually read the chapter in detail.

In situations where you just need more bodies or load a materialized spirit up with military armor and heavy weapons, or have the spirit possess a lot of combat drones it could be useful maybe. Also I am not really familiar with the rules on group casting but there may be some use there to look into.

But really I just kind of like the idea of raising a lot of little ally spirits. It may take a century for them all to be supper powerful but there are a few ways to live forever in shadowrun and a few species that do live very long already. It would not really happen within the scope of a very long campaign but the idea is just kind of neat.

If the magician becomes over-dependent on his own ally spirit or regularly endangers it, the ally may become resentful and attempt to seek its own freedom.

well here I guess is one tweekish reason to have many allies. If you have more than one you can enanger each one of them less often. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Though I don't see that actually going over to well.

[CanRay]

Here's a disadvantage... Lose control of your Ally Spirits, and, well, they are kinda pissed off over being former slaves...

I mean, what would your typical 'Runner do if the Corp Suit that held the control to his Cortex Bomb have it fall out of his fingers and shatter on the floor?

[Yerameyahu]

Yeah. It'd be the different between having your Iron Giant master-blaster buddy, and having your little wolf-pack or Huginn/Muninn combo.

Well, that's why you'd be *super* nice to them, CanRay. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[CanRay]

I will hug him and squeeze him and love him forever and call him "George" and feed him Long Island Ice Teas and...

[Badmoodguy88]

kinda pissed off over being former slaves...

Slaves don't get paid. Servants get paid.
You pay allies in karma, luxuries, and probably newyen too.

Of course if they become an unwilling servant the distinction does become blurred.

[Mooncrow]

But really I just kind of like the idea of raising a lot of little ally spirits. It may take a century for them all to be supper powerful but there are a few ways to live forever in shadowrun and a few species that do live very long already. It would not really happen within the scope of a very long campaign but the idea is just kind of neat.

Well, honestly, I don't see anything in the rules stopping it =)

[Yerameyahu]

You don't pay ally spirits in nuyen. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Hehe.

[Badmoodguy88]

Well there are probably things in the world they want.
None so much as karma maybe, but money buys a lot of stuff.

Materialized spirits can eat, go to a club (if they can get past the wards), drive a fast car.

[Traul]

By the way: an ally can attempt to break free during a rebinding ritual. But when do you have ot rebind an ally? They have unlimited services.

[CanRay]

You don't pay ally spirits in nuyen. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Hehe.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) can be used to buy Long Island Ice Teas.

Or Coffee like a certain Free Spirit in my stories.

[Yerameyahu]

I'd write their formula so that they wouldn't want those things, but sure. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Zoom zoom!

[Jaid]

By the way: an ally can attempt to break free during a rebinding ritual. But when do you have ot rebind an ally? They have unlimited services.

to increase their power, you have to do another binding ritual, no?

[Eisenbeiß]

I don't see any bit of fluff disallow having multiple ally spirits.

There is some fluff regarding this topic. The Leader of Winternight had two ally Spirits, but he was "one of the most powerful magicians of his generation." (System Failure)

[Wasabi]

You don't pay ally spirits in nuyen. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Hehe.

Even if they are an Ally Task Spirit with "Skill (Poledancing)"?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Laodicea]

We know from his last will and testament that Dunkelzahn had at least 5 Ally Spirits.

There's no reason a player couldn't have multiple Ally Spirits.

[TommyTwoToes]

Can you have an Ally spirit inhabit a weapon focus? I got a wierd idea last night for having a spirit inside a weapon focus and the mage constantly polishing and fawning over his magic sword.

[TommyTwoToes]

Even if they are an Ally Task Spirit with "Skill (Poledancing)"?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Or an ally Guardian spirit with "Skill: Weapon (Poledancing)"

[Voran]

Hm. The reasoning that since an NPC had multiple aspects of a special ability doesn't always work as a rationale for why PCs should too. Take AI PCs vs NPCs for example. AI PCs don't have access to all the fun qualities NPC AIs do, like code flux, designer, codivore, emulate, spawn, snooper, etc.

Now, I don't really see anything wrong with a mage having multiple ally spirits, tho its potentially a hefty karma sink that they can never get back if something happens to the spirit, which may become more likely if you split the pools in order to have multiples. 8xForce isn't cheap, plus additional bells and whistles. Investing high makes the ally potentially more resilient, but also means a longer interval between summoning a new one. Figure a decent 50-something Karma for a Force 6 ally with some other stuff attached to it? Raising mid-level force ally spirits up to higher levels is even more expensive than just summoning a powerful one at the beginning.

[darthmord]

In older editions, you could have multiple ally spirits. Thing was, you generally only made one because you had to spend a point of magic to give them life. But there was no hard and fast (let alone a soft) rule saying only one ally spirit.

[Aerospider]

Though multiple ally spirits may suffer from sibling rivalry, on the bright side the pain gets spread thinner.

An ally possessing your truck can take A LOT of drain for you, but if it's always the same spirit then that loyalty will start to slip.

[Ryu]

If a player wanted to have multiple ally spirits... those things are expensive. Given that personal improvement will yield more power than a second ally spirit, I'd allow it.

[V-Origin]

you guys have obviously never heard of the drain karma power