[X] My Assistant

[Critias]

and really, there is no such thing as RAW, its all Rules As Interpreted.

I think some of you guys are overdoing it with statements like this.

Are you genuinely trying to say that there are no instances where the rules are so cut-and-dried, clear, and well written, that you're able to handle the situation without having to interpret something? What is there to "interpret" about the base damage code of a weapon, the rolling of a few dice to determine initiative, or how to count hits?

[Dwight]

Shhhh Critias, he's trying to amaze and delight the audience with his verbal prestidigitation by making the rules disappear in a dime store philosophical flash.

Do we really know anything?

[tete]

At least they get paid to argue for and against LAW (cool, LAW is Law As Written)...

That sounds like some GNU not Unix hooey

[Neraph]

Shhhh Critias, he's trying to amaze and delight the audience with his verbal prestidigitation by making the rules disappear in a dime store philosophical flash.

Do we really know anything?

As I've said, he's dangerously close to claiming (absolutely, I might add) that there are no absolutes. I think we should have picked up on his philosophy by the title of the thread and opening statement - the OP does not apparently believe that RAW can actually exist in reality but only in a text that has not yet been read.

For example, I imagine one argument from him being "You assume that the 'P' that follows the damage code refers to Physical Damage. It may refer to Partial Damage or Paralysis. You read the Rule As Intended that it means Physical."

[ZeroPoint]

I think some of you guys are overdoing it with statements like this.

Are you genuinely trying to say that there are no instances where the rules are so cut-and-dried, clear, and well written, that you're able to handle the situation without having to interpret something? What is there to "interpret" about the base damage code of a weapon, the rolling of a few dice to determine initiative, or how to count hits?

No, there are some instances where its pretty clear what the rules are...but every session you will have some rules that is an interpretation of the rules.
What's the base AP of the Remington Roomsweeper with flechette? is it +2 (before errata) or +5 (post errata) or +4(what it should be)....because if its +4 somehow it loses a point of AP? I can go by RAW and go by the chart...or I can go by RAW and go from the text...so in the end its my interpretation.

and how about damage and net hits since you brought it up.

if i get 1 net hit (the required amount to deal damage at all) is my DV with my Ares Predator 5 or 6? cuz i got 1 net hit. So I can't ever actually have a DV of 5? or perhaps I need to interpret that Net Hits are hits in excess of what's needed to succeed.

and for initiative how do we interpret what applies as an initiative modifier? Synaptic boosters says doesn't stack with other initiative boosters. but reaction enhancers just boosts reaction (and initiative is a derived stat so its kosher)....but wired reflexes says the same thing except that it lists reaction enhancers as an exception...but we just interpreted according to RAW that reactions doesn't really boost initiative...


My point? We could all be playing RAW and be playing different rules.

But it doesn't matter. Its the GMs job to make sure his table plays by the same set of rules, make sure that those rules make since to his players and are enjoyable for everyone. Whether its RAW, RAI, or houserule.

[KarmaInferno]

We all play the game by RAI.

However, we debate the RAI of the RAW.*

Note the subtle difference.






-karma

* - unless we specifically state we're discussing house rules

[Kruger]

It comes down to common sense

No it doesn't. Don't be silly now.

[deek]

A simple poll on DSF asking if the sky is blue with a Yes and a No, could start a flame war, on the right/wrong day. When it comes to sense, DSF has no common:)

[Dwight]

A simple poll on DSF asking if the sky is blue with a Yes and a No, could start a flame war, on the right/wrong day. When it comes to sense, DSF has no common:)

I blame the Azure Sky purists, though the Vanilla Sky freaks aren't much better.

[Acme]

Hey, depending on where you live the sky is grey several months out of the year. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Laodicea]

RAI is what we play by. RAW is what is in the books. RAI is what we argue about on dumpshock. You have to interpret everything you read. It doesn't have any meaning or reference anything else if you don't. I know that intellectually. But it's all semantics.

When I say "RAW" I'm implying a fairly strict interpretation of the rules as written. I'm aware that there are looser interpretations of rules as written, particularly when you start involving the fluff and trying to make different parts of the system harmonize well with one another.

I think most of us are implying a strict interpretation of the rules when we say "RAW". It's the connotation here that's important. We're almost never literally talking about Rules As Written.

[hobgoblin]

Its been a while since I've studied my Japanese, think that is true. Japanese is very contextual and since the language is roughly limited to 100 different sounds (or is it just around 50? in comparison, English has a couple thousand, IIRC), there are a lot of homonyms. I also thought I remembered enjoying learning Japanese because, unlike Latin-based languages, there was no gender identification.

But, that was years ago, so I could not remember (and I didn't take the time to back that up with any sources).

last time i looked into it, japanese have multiple gender identifications; via their honorifics. And then some that do not specify any gender. The latter being something that anime shows seems to have much fun with, to the agitation of some translators...

At least one show seems to have driven fansubbers into nerd-rage relating to the shifting use of male and female honorifics related to a character yet to show up on screen. Its a kind of word play that i suspect is impossible to translate, in much the same way as various puns in english loose all humor when one attempt to translate. One reason why automated translation is still a dream, tho google translate seems to do somewhat better then babblefish did. But try running the same sentence between two languages and wait for it to stabilize. Its almost guaranteed to not be the same as when you started with.

[Yerameyahu]

English does not, strictly speaking, have 'a couple thousand' sounds, btw. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Even if you're counting many disparate English dialects.

[hobgoblin]

all human languages are basically built up by the same set of sounds, no?

[Mooncrow]

all human languages are basically built up by the same set of sounds, no?

It's been more than a few years, but if I remember my linguistics class, English is basically built from less than 50 sounds. (48, I think?)

[Acme]

Focus, people.

[Mooncrow]

Focus, people.

I figured I might as well add something worthwhile to the thread^^

[hobgoblin]

Focus, people.

dumpshock threads are like trees, branches shows up all over.

[Mayhem_2006]

I blame the Azure Sky purists, though the Vanilla Sky freaks aren't much better.

The only correct sky colour for shadowrun is the colour of television tuned to a dead channel.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

That depends on the TV. Mine's purple, I think; blue is common, as is black or grey.

[Voran]

<snip>
And 'they' *is* English's gender-neutral pronoun; has been for centuries. This 'she' stuff is annoying, and 'hir/sie' doesn't bear thinking about. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Why you're thinking about bears and horses, I don't want to know.

Well....maybe a bit.

[phlapjack77]

As I've said, he's dangerously close to claiming (absolutely, I might add) that there are no absolutes. I think we should have picked up on his philosophy by the title of the thread and opening statement - the OP does not apparently believe that RAW can actually exist in reality but only in a text that has not yet been read.

For example, I imagine one argument from him being "You assume that the 'P' that follows the damage code refers to Physical Damage. It may refer to Partial Damage or Paralysis. You read the Rule As Intended that it means Physical."

I mean, that's silly to say that "P" means "Paralysis" rather than "Physical". I agree. It would be like saying that spells like Armor can be stacked, Shapechange into a cheetah only gets you one IP...it's all how we parse the language and intentions of the devs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Blastula]

I only care about RAW because it's way better than Smackdown! could ever be. I'm only looking at the thread title and disregarding the previous 3 pages worth of posts.

[Mooncrow]

I mean, that's silly to say that "P" means "Paralysis" rather than "Physical". I agree. It would be like saying that spells like Armor can be stacked, Shapechange into a cheetah only gets you one IP...it's all how we parse the language and intentions of the devs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Epistemology is a boring subject, but a class or two in it may be of help here.

[phlapjack77]

RAI is what we play by. RAW is what is in the books. RAI is what we argue about on dumpshock. You have to interpret everything you read. It doesn't have any meaning or reference anything else if you don't. I know that intellectually. But it's all semantics.

When I say "RAW" I'm implying a fairly strict interpretation of the rules as written. I'm aware that there are looser interpretations of rules as written, particularly when you start involving the fluff and trying to make different parts of the system harmonize well with one another.

I think most of us are implying a strict interpretation of the rules when we say "RAW". It's the connotation here that's important. We're almost never literally talking about Rules As Written.

Yeah, I take your meaning. I AM being a bit of a "absolutist" here, to try to make my point.

Now I know how RAW'ers feel, when they're trying to advance their viewpoint. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)