[X] My Assistant

[Jaid]

1.5 amps, as was already mentioned, would kill the runner anyways. in point of fact, 15 milliamps will cause serious problems. as i recall, somewhere around 5 milliamps is all that is needed to seriously injure you, and even lower current than that will still hurt like crazy.

as far as the megohm resistance, it's not all that unlikely in general, but i have no idea how likely it would be in a detonator. but really, you can get individual resistors with a lot more resistance than that, and they'd be quite tiny.

[Sengir]

That doesn't seem like a very convincing reason, Sengir

Not at all. But if we already assume that a SnS round hits the (small) detonator, which is already placed in the charge, which is carried by a runner who just happens to stand next to the structure's archilles heel, we might as well add another insane assumption (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


Of course if your GM says "the guards don't use SnS because they are scared to set off explosives" that's fine, as long as this logic was born out of plotline necessities and not vice versa. As a current example from my group, if your GM decides you are not going to pick up a weapon and explains it by saying "well, the AK the guard just dropped got damaged by the fall", that's just fine. If your GM believes that IRL dropping a weapon to the floor renders it unusuable and does not let you pick up any weapons because of that belief, that sucks.

[Ascalaphus]

I can't around this; shouldn't the shadowrunners be more scared of this than the guards? Scared enough not to carry unprotected explosives?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I can't around this; shouldn't the shadowrunners be more scared of this than the guards? Scared enough not to carry unprotected explosives?

This is generally why I carried detonators on the opposite side of my body from the actual explosives... just an extra bit of precaution, even if was not actually needed in the long run... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[X-Kalibur]

Not at all. But if we already assume that a SnS round hits the (small) detonator, which is already placed in the charge, which is carried by a runner who just happens to stand next to the structure's archilles heel, we might as well add another insane assumption (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


Of course if your GM says "the guards don't use SnS because they are scared to set off explosives" that's fine, as long as this logic was born out of plotline necessities and not vice versa. As a current example from my group, if your GM decides you are not going to pick up a weapon and explains it by saying "well, the AK the guard just dropped got damaged by the fall", that's just fine. If your GM believes that IRL dropping a weapon to the floor renders it unusuable and does not let you pick up any weapons because of that belief, that sucks.

Yeah, but stealing corp issued weapons seems like a bad idea on so many levels.

[Starmage21]

Yeah, but stealing corp issued weapons seems like a bad idea on so many levels.

Not if your team has a tag eraser and a decent hacker.

[DWC]

This is generally why I carried detonators on the opposite side of my body from the actual explosives... just an extra bit of precaution, even if was not actually needed in the long run... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Or you require that one person carry the detonators and another carries the explosives. That's our usual approach and it hasn't failed spectacularly yet.

[Dumori]

Just wait till you fall on each other and an electrified rail as the train the guy your extracting heads to wards you....

[Yerameyahu]

Just put *all* the gear in little shock/chem/etc.-proof pouches. Done, crazy GM tactic neutralized.

[Simon Kerimov]

Just put *all* the gear in little shock/chem/etc.-proof pouches. Done, crazy GM tactic neutralized.

I'm sorry, I found it spelled out explicitly in Arsenal. I didn't think it would be so irritating to people.

[Mayhem_2006]

I'm sorry, I found it spelled out explicitly in Arsenal. I didn't think it would be so irritating to people.

Not irritating, just not relevant to your original post. Yes, a SnS might set off an electrical detonator, but nobody with *any* knowledge of explosives will be carrying around their plastique with the detonator already stuck in it.

So the chances of collateral damage from shocking a explosives-carrying 'runner are negligible. And the detonator going off on its own shouldn't cause significant injury unless the runner in question keeps them tucked into his hat-band...

[Dumori]

So the chances of collateral damage from shocking a explosives-carrying 'runner are negligible. And the detonator going off on its own shouldn't cause significant injury unless the runner in question keeps them tucked into his hat-band...

Or right over the heart in a big bunch.

[Faradon]

So how do people feel about lightning bolt and other such spells in relations to plastic explosives?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Or you require that one person carry the detonators and another carries the explosives. That's our usual approach and it hasn't failed spectacularly yet.

That also works out well... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)

[Ed_209a]

...in point of fact, 15 milliamps will cause serious problems. as i recall, somewhere around 5 milliamps is all that is needed to seriously injure you,

I think you are talking about electrically knocking your heart out of rhythm. To clarify, this is caused by a few milliamps at the heart. As mentioned above, resistance varies greatly depending on the situation, so current that tickles one time, could kill you the next time, and current strong enough to cause surface burns might not kill you.

[suoq]

I think you are talking about electrically knocking your heart out of rhythm. To clarify, this is caused by a few milliamps at the heart. As mentioned above, resistance varies greatly depending on the situation, so current that tickles one time, could kill you the next time, and current strong enough to cause surface burns might not kill you.

In an effort to throw actual data on the flames of vagueness.

http://www.oshatrain.org/courses/pages/715Am2.html

Note the term "Effects of Electrical Current on the Body", not "on the Heart".
50-150 milliamps (Note: no where near enough to do jack to the detonators, nevermind the explosive)

Extremely painful shock, respiratory arrest (breathing stops), severe muscle contractions. Flexor muscles may cause holding on; extensor muscles may cause intense pushing away. Death is possible.

50 milliamps does NOT tickle. The amount of amperage that does tickle (1 milliamps) isn't going to kill you. You can use a violet wand at the tickle level (and at a pain level) very safely as long as you follow simple safety procedures.

It's easy to cause surface burns with a current that isn't going to kill you. All you need is a violet wand and a piece of conducting material that comes to a point for the spark to come out of. It's very easy to do with great precision. And if a violet wand tickles you one time, it will keep tickling you. It isn't going to kill you.

Unless you're doing something incredibly stupid, like using it on someone with a pacemaker or using it anywhere near the eyeballs, it's a very safe device.

[Sengir]

Yeah, but stealing corp issued weapons seems like a bad idea on so many levels.

I'd rather bring a corp-issued weapon into a gunfight than a knife, and unfortunately those were the only options. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Jaid]

I think you are talking about electrically knocking your heart out of rhythm. To clarify, this is caused by a few milliamps at the heart. As mentioned above, resistance varies greatly depending on the situation, so current that tickles one time, could kill you the next time, and current strong enough to cause surface burns might not kill you.

to some extent yes. 15 mA is the point at which you probably lose the ability to let go (it can vary a bit from person to person, but that's what my safety manual has listed). i had misremembered the point at which it was likely to cause death (though less current over an extended period of time can still cause death potentially, as the linked article notes: 100 mA for 3 seconds is as dangers as 900 mA for 0.03 seconds. one of those is very short, probably shorter than you or i can perceive, but both are quite possible within the context of someone working on a device rather than someone being shocked with a taser, and the former is what my training relates to. so no, 15 mA won't kill you instantly. but if you're getting 15 mA for a while, that's a different thing entirely).

my safety manual further lists 100-200 mA as being 'almost certain heart stoppage and death unless defibrillation equipment is available', only someone left the caps lock key on and bolded the entire sentence.

[kzt]

Plausibility depends very much on the explosives. Plastic, no. Maybe if they had black powder. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ?

Umm, doesn't anyone read the rules? SR plastic explosives doesn't require detonators or anything like that. It just blows up when an electric current hits it.

"Plastic Explosives: Highly stable, moldable, and adhesive, plastic
explosives are ideal for certain jobs—like blowing a hole in a wall. They
are usually color-tinted to indicate the level of current needed to detonate
them, from the black of magnetic-field induction to the chalky
white of 440-volt industrial explosives."

I have no idea where they find the idiots who would write anything this insane.

[sabs]

have you read the fluff on move by wire systems.

Some of the Shadowrun writers do not research their ideas (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Indeed. Try to ignore it. Fluff is nothing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[CanRay]

Some of the Shadowrun writers do not research their ideas (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Re-search? What is this Re-search you speak of?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Umm, doesn't anyone read the rules? SR plastic explosives doesn't require detonators or anything like that. It just blows up when an electric current hits it.

"Plastic Explosives: Highly stable, moldable, and adhesive, plastic
explosives are ideal for certain jobs—like blowing a hole in a wall. They
are usually color-tinted to indicate the level of current needed to detonate
them, from the black of magnetic-field induction to the chalky
white of 440-volt industrial explosives."

I have no idea where they find the idiots who would write anything this insane.

Or you could just read that as the strength of the detonator required for actual detonation... makes it easier that way...

[CanRay]

How about this for a reason Stick and Shock is a bad idea: "It's a fraggin' BULLET!"

It's traveling at either just under or quite a bit over supersonic speed and has a bit of weight behind it. If you're not wearing armor of some sort, it's going to penetrate the fleshy bits quite nicely.

I'm not a doctor, but I t think fast traveling things in my fleshy bits is bad for my health, even before the electricity is added.

[kzt]

Or you could just read that as the strength of the detonator required for actual detonation... makes it easier that way...

That doesn't make any sense either. You don't need a giant 3-phase generator to set off a blasting cap. And everyone wants blasting caps that blow up when you drive under a high tension power line, right?