Fusing Fantasy & Cyberpunk in a non-lame way Options

[Stahlseele]

WH40K?
Doesn't get more Dystopian.
Orks, Elves, Sorcery, Demons.

[sabs]

Entire planets over run by undead armies (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Stahlseele, the title says 'non-lame'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Stahlseele]

i happen to like the over the top ness of 40k ^^

[CanRay]

It's needz moar dakka.

[Stahlseele]

It's needz moar dakka.

navar enuff!

[Kruger]

My point is that you're wrong. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It's in interesting fantasy world you live in. Maybe you should make an RPG. And I didn't misspell your name, that implies an error. It's just too long I just can't be bothered to check it and type it all out, so you got a phonetic nickname.

We're not talking about the real world, for one thing. Another is definitional: you *make* a spot in the next tier, or you're *not* a shark at all. Some people *are* waiting, and they're lame non-shark people. Big dogs leave because they can't hang on to their power anymore, not because they either die or decide to trade being a prince of the earth for a nursing home.

Now, the example you're presenting as a ludicrously-unlikely scenario? Sounds like a pretty typical shadowrun to me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Again, more fantasy. I can't say I've seen too many Shadowrun adventures involve killing top level corporate executives. In fact, if anything, that's as far from a typical Shadowrun as it gets. The Shadowrun world relies on the idea that the corporations are in control of everything and their heads are pulling strings from up on high. If the "typical" Shadowrun is popping off top executives, then the corps aren't in control anymore. And that's bad for business. Shadowrunners are just individuals. The mega-corp is an entity. If you look at the names attached to all the big corps over the pre-4e muddled time line writing hack job, many of them don't change much. Middle management changes. Upper management is a different story. Besides, in the end, you're still missing the point, which explains why you're arguing "against" me on these wild tangents. It's not that it doesn't happen, it's that it should, and it would. But nowhere near the scale you're suggesting. Like a lot of things many Shadowrun players don't get, in the end, it's all about the business. The executive is an individual, but part of the entity. And it isn't good for business if they're killing each other all the time or sabotaging each other's projects/divisions. That's just sloppy storytelling if the only way executives move up is by damaging their parent organization.

Elves don't have what it takes to be good corporate sharks.

A good CEO is only worried about how much money he can make before next Thursday, not how much he'll be making in 30 years.
He knows that he'll be dead or gone before the consequences of his behavior catch up to him. An elf can't say that.
Cutthroat corporate hardball isn't about the long game.

The thing is, we're not talking about elves from Tolkein or D&D who have already lived a hundred years or more, and know what it is like to pace atthat rate. Elves in the corporate world of Shadowrun are humans with pointy ears. At their oldest, they're like 70 or 80. Most are probably younger, and have grown up in the human world of results and deadlines. They may or may not have adjusted yet to an "elven" timeline. And not all elves would adjust tot hat timeline just like not all humans would be constantly pushing to the top in devious ways.

[Yerameyahu]

As I said, intentional misspelling. Don't. 'Yera' will suffice if your time is so valuable; I do notice that your post is kinda long, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

For clarity, I didn't mean that killing *top-level* execs was an everyday thing. However, corporate squabbles (internal) *are* classically shadowrun material.

[Kruger]

Yes, but Yahoo was the part I remembered. That's how I've always said it in my head because, well, the rest is a long jumble.

[Yerameyahu]

We're not 4 and this isn't recess. As I said, 'Yera' will be fine; if that's still too long, I can't help you.

Anyway. You said 'sharks', and my point was that sharks aren't waiting for old age in the first place. If you actually meant 'all corporate figures, not just sharks', then I misunderstood. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I didn't mean (or say) that all corporate figures are 'proactively retiring' everyone ahead of them, nor that there isn't a majority who just waits.

[Megu]

Considering that the language spoken in Tirna Nog is Irish Sperethiel, as opposed to Sperethial that they speak in in Tir Taingire, i kinda doupt that.

Are they really different, though? It seems like that would defy the point of creating/using an "elven language" if it's different to the point of unintelligibility across national boundaries. Even Arabic, which is balkanized like you describe, has a Modern Standard Arabic that newscasters use and people try to use to communicate with speakers from faraway countries. I'd imagine there's less Irish and more English loans in Tairngire's Sperethiel, but the Sperethiel people learn in the classroom in both countries is probably not too dissimilar.

Stahlseele, the title says 'non-lame'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) This, so much this

In pursuing the fantasy races as social metaphor, what are elves and dwarves supposed to be? I'm thinking jews for elves (occult, ancient culture, strange language, lots of conspiracy theories, powerful in business, wanting their own state...), but what about dwarves?

I think the closest analogue, because the dwarves are the "well integrated minority" or whatever that doesn't have the trouble the others do, and has a reputation as hard workers and all of that, is probably Asian minorities in the West, the whole "model minority" thing. Because I'm sure dwarves that fail to conform to those expectations get looked upon in much the same way as Asians who fall through the cracks here.

[Kruger]

We're not 4 and this isn't recess. As I said, 'Yera' will be fine; if that's still too long, I can't help you.

You say this as if it was a negotiation, lol.

And no, we're not four. I'm not sure why you're looking for insult where there isn't any. I think it's because you drew a line in the sand to say I was "wrong" (lol). So if this was something you had a vested emotional interest in, then well, I guess that's your cross to bear. I don't care enough about you to even remember your name, much less insult you. Unless you find that insulting. And well, I guess that's also your cross to bear.

[TommyTwoToes]

Heck look at the Mog in Somalia. Lots of guns in the hands of gangs that zoned out on drugs. Complete lawlessness.

For feel I like the movie Babylon AD. The movie was mostly cheese, but there was good environment stuff for SR. The Johnson drived around in an APC with heavy AR inside. It is escorted by surplus Russian tanks. There was a marketplace with guys selling bread next to a guy selling AK's.

[Inca]

Ya so i just wonder why the gangs in SR fluff just seem sooooo lame....i guess it's a just baggage from the '80's. I wish they'd really flesh it out....not necessarily imitating the gang stereo types of modern day...but exploring the brutality that would be required of someone to survive in such a supposedly dangerous world. They say so much... "Running the shadows has never been as dangerous..." ....and then they have a picture of a totally cartoony dwarf, elf and troll all packed into a clown car.

Or for example the artwork in runners companion for the new charcter concepts just turns me off so badly....it just looks so goofy....and I wish they wouldn't mess up all the kick ass visuals I got going for shadowrun inside my head....and then i'm like....why?

[CanRay]

Are you kidding? The Dwarf had AzTexMex for Lunch! It doesn't get more dangerous than that!

[Mooncrow]

You say this as if it was a negotiation, lol.

And no, we're not four. I'm not sure why you're looking for insult where there isn't any. I think it's because you drew a line in the sand to say I was "wrong" (lol). So if this was something you had a vested emotional interest in, then well, I guess that's your cross to bear. I don't care enough about you to even remember your name, much less insult you. Unless you find that insulting. And well, I guess that's also your cross to bear.

Oh come now, just because you edited down your insult, doesn't mean that no one saw it.

[Kruger]

Edited down what? I only changed the wording because I didn't like the way it read. Stop trying to stir up shit. Damn this board is full of drama queens.

[sabs]

Kruger can stir up shit all on his own.. thank you very much (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Maybe it's full of people who aren't interested in being bullied. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Kruger]

Bullied by what? Intelligent debate? You're one of the crown princesses of drama yourself.

If you're going to disagree with someone, you can't just expect them to roll over and acquiesce because you say something is so. If that's how debates have always worked for you, it might explain the frustration with intelligent discourse some of you seem to display. You're really just one of those guys who thinks he knows it all. And that's fine. I can see how you might clash with someone like me. Doubling up your arrogance with a constant victim mentality.

[Yerameyahu]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) You mean, someone who *also* thinks he knows it all? Certainly I knew full well that you were referring to me; you're not exactly subtle, bud. Belittling people in an 'intelligent discourse' is the definition of bullying, but I don't need to explain that to someone like you, right? So, you're free to take whatever tactics you like, but don't pretend to be surprised when people don't—how was it?—"roll over and acquiesce". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Kruger]

I've never claimed to be subtle here. Subtleties are for people too concerned with appearances. Trying to conceal scorn with pleasantries is somewhat distasteful and weak. Kinda like calling me "bud".

My responses in this thread were pretty reasonable and well supported. If you're going to counter with a bunch of "Nuh-uh" type replies and then get catty, don't expect me to not mark you down on it.

[Yerameyahu]

Oho, you like being called by your correct handle, eh? What a crazy custom, right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Well, that's probably plenty threadjacking for the moment. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I'll just see you next time, Kruger.

[CanRay]

"Next time, Gadget. Next time!"

[Kruger]

You're missing the point, again. *gasp* lol. I don't care what you call me. You're still as irrelevant as you ever were in the respect of taking offense to what you say. Just pointing out that you're quite guilty of the things you try and pin on me.