[X] My Assistant

[Mikado]

TBH, I feel sorry for the GM that lets this happen. This isn't even an enjoyable game at this point.

For you and I maybe... But if Patty's group likes that sort of thing who knows...

Hell... I remember what a character I had in Rifts was like after 10 years of playing... I had to play him low key just so the GM didn't kill the rest of the party.... But everyone enjoyed themselves.

[Doc Chase]

Ten years in the Simbieda Money Machine? Ech.

Stronger player than I. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Not a lot of folks play Rifts out here anyway. Never got into a game.

[Mikado]

Hey, I'll admit. I love the world... All of them... well most of them. Rifts, BtSN, Palladium fantasy... I just hate the system...

[Mooncrow]

Ten years in the Simbieda Money Machine? Ech.

Stronger player than I. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Not a lot of folks play Rifts out here anyway. Never got into a game.

Rifts can actually be a lot of fun; it's just incredibly demanding on the GM to provide any sort of balance to the party.

[Doc Chase]

The fluff is kinda neat, but the mechanics were confusing as hell.

Maybe Patty's group should try Rifts out. Then they could all be dragons. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Mikado]

The fluff is kinda neat, but the mechanics were confusing as hell.

Maybe Patty's group should try Rifts out. Then they could all be dragons. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Dragons... forget that... OLD ONES!!!

[Mordinvan]

ShadowMunchkin.

Re: team knowing if the member is blood/toxic - In all honesty, if this was in one of my games I would probably drop a few hints to let them know. After all, this isn't a subtle undertaking.

It can actually be very subtle if you do it right.

[Doc Chase]

It can actually be very subtle if you do it right.

Sure. If you do it right. I did it once, a long time ago in 3E. Having a mage with a degree in Thaumaturgy from Miskatonic was a hoot.

The shadows cast by his fire spells all had tentacles at the flaming tips.

[TommyTwoToes]

You know when Neraph is calling something absurd...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Here be Dragons

Damn I was stuck in a meeting at work so you beat me to it.

[Neraph]

Wow... talk about the pot calling the kettle black...
I remember saying something about this when you where going off on your ally spirit inhabiting the mage who summoned it so you could play a "free" spirit.
I do agree that the game pattyhulez is playing is no longer Shadowrun. I have no idea what to call it. But hey, if thats how you guys like to roll then so be it. Yes patty, you have the rules to back you up... there is nothing we can say against it. All I can say is have fun.

First off, there are degrees and multitudes between working within the wording for a specific power and... this. What this person preposes is some bizzar bastard child between what I had proposed (and, whether you like it or not, lies within the rules of the game) and extrapolating to the Nth degree.

Now, in all fairness, this (dragon-inhabiting) is entirely possible to actually pull off. My questions though are: 1) how many dragons are there in the world, and 2) who's going to play them like the creatures of power they actually should be?

Also, thank you Mooncrow for the link... and the backhanded compliment?

EDIT: Also, the character's ascention that I played out was basically the end of the campaign. We had one or two runs after that and called it. My character had accomplished his goals, and the rest of the team got to areas in their advancement that they were happy with and retired them as Infected generals in my character's army he was building.

And they faded into the Shadows...

[Mäx]

Not really Dragons of the sixth world have such stats

If by "stats" you mean type,sex,color,metahuman form(s),primary lair(s) and name of the translator then yeas it has (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[WyldKnight]

I have yet to see the answer how to avoid being exploded by every military and their grandmother once they realize whats happening. You can barely, if even, hide one GD from going poof let alone about a hundred normal dragons.

[Mikado]

First off, there are degrees and multitudes between working within the wording for a specific power and... this. What this person preposes is some bizzar bastard child between what I had proposed (and, whether you like it or not, lies within the rules of the game) and extrapolating to the Nth degree.

Now, in all fairness, this (dragon-inhabiting) is entirely possible to actually pull off.

Not to derail this thread more than I already have... But...

Degrees and multitudes... What you proposed and what patty proposed are both within the rules. Both require GM approval. I don't recall saying that they where not in the rules only that as a player it is not a valid choice without major GM permission and oversight.
I don't have a problem with what patty suggested, she only asked if it was possible within the rules. You do the same. My problem is when you pass it off to others as being acceptable creations without so much as a disclaimer stating that the rules are being used in a manner that requires GM approval. Standard character creation (for the most part) does not require GM supervision. What you state does.

When a player makes a standard character the GM only needs to look at the sheet after the player finishes to double check math/availability/power level. What you and patty suggest almost always require GM oversight from the start. I don't expect you to understand my point of view on this I just want to point out the differences in character creation from standard and "GM-approval" types.

[Laodicea]

All of you have no imagination.

To successfully enchant a Great Dragon, all you need is a team of a few hundred mages and/or ally spirits working together in a teamwork/extended test.

A team of a few hundred high-force ally spirits (say force 20 and above) would have no trouble scoring the required hits in order to enchant a great dragon regardless of how powerful his essence/magic is.

Or a team of a few hundred mages burning one point of edge each.

No problemo, chummers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

A force 20 ally spirit could probably kill most great dragons, alone. A spirit of this force is pretty much a deity. Why would you even bother having it inhabit a dragon? A materialization F20 spirit could appear wherever it wants on a whim, kill whatever it wants, do whatever it wants.(edit: i'd like to see a mage that can conjure such a spirit without dying. Even most great dragons couldn't conjure one.)

So, yeah, one is probably strong enough to possess or inhabit a great dragon. But why would it bother?

edit: inhabiting a non-great dragon would probably be somewhat of a step down for a spirit this mighty.

[Mordinvan]

A force 20 ally spirit could probably kill most great dragons, alone. A spirit of this force is pretty much a deity. Why would you even bother having it inhabit a dragon? A materialization F20 spirit could appear wherever it wants on a whim, kill whatever it wants, do whatever it wants.(edit: i'd like to see a mage that can conjure such a spirit without dying. Even most great dragons couldn't conjure one.)

So, yeah, one is probably strong enough to possess or inhabit a great dragon. But why would it bother?

edit: inhabiting a non-great dragon would probably be somewhat of a step down for a spirit this mighty.

As most GD's have stats of 'plot', doing anything the GM wants is actually rather simple. They wouldn't even have to summon it, just ask some force 20 free spirit they met 4 on the last cycle, or in a deep meta plane one day to come and blow up X for them.

[Laodicea]

All true. But if you use the recommended stats from the book, which are normal dragon type + 10, my statement is valid.

[Draco18s]

All true. But if you use the recommended stats from the book, which are normal dragon type + 10, my statement is valid.

Closer to +5 (+3 to +5 to most stats, +10 to strength and body).

[Sephiroth]

Say you are ordered to kidnap a dragon and inhabit it with one of your ally spirits.

How would you go about doing it?

Ignoring the rules you are breaking and impossibility of what you are suggesting rules-wise for a moment, what exactly makes you think that the draconic community would just sit back and let you do this?

What you are proposing is the kind of thing that would make the Greats call a council meeting. And as I understand it, if you are the reason for a dragon council meeting, you are in very deep trouble.

[Neraph]

Degrees and multitudes...

What I proposed is basically for the ending of a campaign, and in my case it was within 3 runs of the end of the campaign. Or at least 1 run and 3 sessions, IIRC.

What she proposes looks to be the beginning of a campaign. And not once, but over a hundred times.

That's degrees and multitudes.

edit: i'd like to see a mage that can conjure such a spirit without dying.

I can build one (400 BP character) that can summon a F28 with very little in-game prep. He can statistically survive it. Maybe. At least half the time I think.

[Laodicea]

I can build one (400 BP character) that can summon a F28 with very little in-game prep. He can statistically survive it. Maybe. At least half the time I think.

by all means, show us.

[Draco18s]

Given that it would require Magic 14, I too, would like to see this.

[Neraph]

Easy. Nosferatu with Magic 5, Magic Pact with a F6 spirit, and (the in-game setup) drain 12 Essence and use Essence Drain to boost Magic by 6.

5 + 6 = 11 + 3 (1/day) = 14.

Overcast/Summon F28. 1/day. F22 the rest of the day.

To survive, have drain stats at 4 and take Increase spells for them to get ~ 6+ successes. That gives you a lot of drain dice.

And, just to reiterate, I can maybe survive it mostly some of the time. Oh, and I just realized that my drain value is 2x the spirit's successes. So I can survive it if he rolls poorly. Which is, again, why I said "He can statistically survive it. Maybe. At least half the time I think."

[Draco18s]

If he has a body of 7+ he won't fall unconscious from an average result (neither side using Edge anywhere).

However, on average you'd never get any services out of the spirit either, as it'd still have 8 dice on you.

[Mooncrow]

Easy. Nosferatu with Magic 5, Magic Pact with a F6 spirit, and (the in-game setup) drain 12 Essence and use Essence Drain to boost Magic by 6.

5 + 6 = 11 + 3 (1/day) = 14.

Overcast/Summon F28. 1/day. F22 the rest of the day.

To survive, have drain stats at 4 and take Increase spells for them to get ~ 6+ successes. That gives you a lot of drain dice.

And, just to reiterate, I can maybe survive it mostly some of the time. Oh, and I just realized that my drain value is 2x the spirit's successes. So I can survive it if he rolls poorly. Which is, again, why I said "He can statistically survive it. Maybe. At least half the time I think."

That's interesting, I've never read the infected magic rules closely before. Craziness.

[Neraph]

Yes, but it is within the realm of possibility that I can actually roll well and he rolls poorly. A bad thing to bank on, but that's a go-for-broke thing. And hell, if you have to Jeet Kun Do like that, you may actually wish to go unconscious so the F28 rampages.