[X] My Assistant

[Mordinvan]

Cool. I'll add that to my list of spells to make, right next to the Undetectable spell (Improved Invisibility for all senses). Too bad drain can't be healed as of SR4A.

That's what they said. Drain could not be healed, but an SnS could.

[Mordinvan]

Cool. I'll add that to my list of spells to make, right next to the Undetectable spell (Improved Invisibility for all senses). Too bad drain can't be healed as of SR4A.

That's what they said. Drain could not be healed, but an SnS could.

[Aerospider]

I used to do it that way, but it totally disincentivizes a magician healing a buddy that's on death's door. "You're dying? Fuck that, I don't wanna join you!"

QFT.

In my game I've made it F-2 and that seems to be a doable balance.

[Doc Chase]

Actually in 4th ed, there is nothing forbidding magic from healing stun.

The description of the Heal spell flat out says it won't heal stun. Or are you talking magic in general?

[Dakka Dakka]

I like the interpretation that DV-2 is based on the damage the patient has sustained. Doing something for someone on death's door should be harder and thus more draining than helping someone with a scratch.

Don't you mean F/2 -2? Why would anyone cast heal over Force 5 unless he can consistently roll more than 5 hits?

@Doc Chase: He is talking about Magic in general.

[TommyTwoToes]

I like the interpretation that DV-2 is based on the damage the patient has sustained. Doing something for someone on death's door should be harder and thus more draining than helping someone with a scratch.

Don't you mean F/2 -2? Why would anyone cast heal over Force 5 unless he can consistently roll more than 5 hits?

@Doc Chase: He is talking about Magic in general.

And remember that the Stabilize spell is available too. It has drain based on boxes of Overflow, not total boxes taken.

[Doc Chase]

I like the interpretation that DV-2 is based on the damage the patient has sustained. Doing something for someone on death's door should be harder and thus more draining than helping someone with a scratch.

Don't you mean F/2 -2? Why would anyone cast heal over Force 5 unless he can consistently roll more than 5 hits?

@Doc Chase: He is talking about Magic in general.

Ahah! I'll start development on 'Acetometaphin' immediately.

The Heal spell is tricky - it doesn't get cast by Force at all in 4th. The rules for Health spells in general is that DV is based off hits/damage value/etc depending on how you look at it. Otherwise folks would be dropping overcast Heal spells at F10 and only suffering 3 drain.

[Dakka Dakka]

The Heal spell is tricky - it doesn't get cast by Force at all in 4th.

Of course it does, only the drain isn't based on force. You still have to choose a force to know how many hits are applicable.

The rules for Health spells in general is that DV is based off hits/damage value/etc depending on how you look at it.

Actually it is only the Heal Spell and the Stabilize Spell, which aren't based on Force.

Otherwise folks would be dropping overcast Heal spells at F10 and only suffering 3 drain.

As above you only benefit from Force 10 if you generate more than 9 hits. Force 5 should be enough for all but the most specialized mages or lucky Edge users.

[Doc Chase]

'Kay, whatever.

[Mordinvan]

The description of the Heal spell flat out says it won't heal stun. Or are you talking magic in general?

Magic in general.

[Aerospider]

I like the interpretation that DV-2 is based on the damage the patient has sustained. Doing something for someone on death's door should be harder and thus more draining than helping someone with a scratch.

Don't you mean F/2 -2? Why would anyone cast heal over Force 5 unless he can consistently roll more than 5 hits?

@Doc Chase: He is talking about Magic in general.

F/2 -2 for Heal is too easy-going. Any caster able to reliably resist two points of drain (i.e. almost all of them) could potentially heal up to eight boxes of damage and expect to come out unscathed.

It's out of keeping with drain in general, but I think a 1-to-1 ratio between Force and Drain is appropriate given that you get a discount, you can make it stun damage and you have the option of not doing it at all (a choice that the victim probably didn't get in the first place).

[yesferatu]

I'm perfectly fine with F/2 -2.
It's sustained over a number of turns and it's not harmful.
Sure, it's useful, but it's not a combat spell.
Most of the big drain spells (the +3's and +5's) are things AOE or ranged energy combat spells or armor.

I'm not sure how much sense it makes to punish a healer for healing.
From a fluff standpoint, it makes sense for a massive toxic wave to take its toll on a caster, while a healing spell would be much less harsh.

Most characters are going to heal fully between runs anyway.
It's only really useful for extended runs and on the spot healing.
Hell, most stun damage doesn't last more than a couple hours.

[Aerospider]

I'm not sure how much sense it makes to punish a healer for healing.

Fair point, but it's not as though Heal is nothing more than an alternative to carrying around a heavy medkit. It has important advantages that need to be balanced, not least the fact that it doesn't run out of supplies.

Hell, most stun damage doesn't last more than a couple hours.

Which is even more reason not to let the drain be too low. Converting a lot of physical damage into a little stun is very, very useful so reducing the drain value enough to make the spell's use free most of the time is being too easy on them.

[Dakka Dakka]

Fair point, but it's not as though Heal is nothing more than an alternative to carrying around a heavy medkit. It has important advantages that need to be balanced, not least the fact that it doesn't run out of supplies.

50¥ in intervals at the GM's discretion, makes it hardly expensive. The threshold for First Aid is a bit of a problem, though. Unless you are sufficiently skilled chances are that you cannot help at all, whereas optimized characters can get patients from a near-death experience to up and running in a matter of seconds (10 Boxes=half a minute).

Which is even more reason not to let the drain be too low. Converting a lot of physical damage into a little stun is very, very useful so reducing the drain value enough to make the spell's use free most of the time is being too easy on them.

I agree. 7+ drain as per RAW for a lifethreatening injury is hardly little drain IMHO. 1 drain for light injuries (1-3 boxes) is OK too.