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> Implanted Foci
Dashifen
post Sep 2 2010, 06:50 PM
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A player has decided to try and figure out a way that her character's foci could be essentially guaranteed not to be dropped by accident: dermal implants! My feeling is that this is probably fine as long as she agrees they can still be targeted for counterspelling via the astral plane.

Anyone have any other ideas or warnings?

Now, my next fear is that she'll want to use her critter form while sustaining Armor, for example, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
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Neurosis
post Sep 2 2010, 06:54 PM
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Apparently, this is a real and canonical thing! Jane "Frosty" Foster had a spell lock (read: 1E equivalent of Sustaining Focus only super broken) implanted in her leg bone. I have no idea if that kind of shenanigans should be permissible for PCs or really anyone but Immortal Elves, however. Foci should probably not cost Essence!
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Yerameyahu
post Sep 2 2010, 06:58 PM
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How about duct tape instead? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

There's nothing terribly *wrong* about implanted foci. My general rule is never, ever implant something that you can simply carry, but if that's what the character wants…
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TommyTwoToes
post Sep 2 2010, 07:01 PM
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QUOTE (Neurosis @ Sep 2 2010, 02:54 PM) *
Apparently, this is a real and canonical thing! Jane "Frosty" Foster had a spell lock (read: 1E equivalent of Sustaining Focus only super broken) implanted in her leg bone. I have no idea if that kind of shenanigans should be permissible for PCs or really anyone but Immortal Elves, however. Foci should probably not cost Essence!


I think the players living body is "opaque" on the Astral so the focus could not be targeted there is it was truely implanted. There needs to be a downside for balance reasons. I guess you could have someone try to steal the focus anyway, might be a good oportunity for that character to get a cyberleg involuntarily.

Ahh 1e, couldn't you ground out spells through spell locks? I seem to remember you could throw Hellblast (or whatever the AOE fire spell was) on the astral at a dual natured entity, and it would ground out and manifest on the physical plane with all the AOE goodness.

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Neurosis
post Sep 2 2010, 07:07 PM
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1E magic is totally incomprehensible because SPELLS are treated as COMBATANTS (like spirits). I don't even want to talk about it. 1E is pretty Fubar. But essentially a Spell Lock was an infinite force sustaining focus (that you could 'pin' to an enemy for say a permanent petrify) that cost 1 Karma to bond. Essentially it was DISCOUNT QUICKENING. Ridiculously expensive in terms of Nuyen though.

No idea about the situation you're describing.

QUOTE
My general rule is never, ever implant something that you can simply carry, but if that's what the character wants…


Isn't the general rule of Shadowrun the exact inverse of this. : P
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Yerameyahu
post Sep 2 2010, 07:12 PM
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*shrug* I'd rather carry a UWB Radar on my shoulder than pay surgery and Essence to get it in my chest. Same for everything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Some implants are totally unique (or at least, significantly more effective), and those are the ones I'd get. So, never an implant Commlink, but maybe a gyro-wrist or Grip Feet, etc. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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sabs
post Sep 2 2010, 07:13 PM
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from a Purely Fluff point of view.

In Earthdawn, you can use Blood Magic to "attach" a foci on to you for a year and a day
It's actually very common (as is blood magic in general)

So that might be how the Whats Her Name has a foci attached to her bone.
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Neurosis
post Sep 2 2010, 07:15 PM
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It was also IIRC super-duper-ultra masked and totally impossible to detect through astral perception. Fuck rules mechanics, Immortal Elves do what they want.

/strut
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sabs
post Sep 2 2010, 07:17 PM
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Remember Immortal Elves know Thread Magic, and some serious Aura Altering Magic from Earthdawn..

They cheat.

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Doc Byte
post Sep 2 2010, 07:42 PM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Sep 2 2010, 09:12 PM) *
*shrug* I'd rather carry a UWB Radar on my shoulder than pay surgery and Essence to get it in my chest. Same for everything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Some implants are totally unique (or at least, significantly more effective), and those are the ones I'd get. So, never an implant Commlink, but maybe a gyro-wrist or Grip Feet, etc. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


My concept looks like this: Drop my character out of an airplain in the middle of nowhere with nothing but his pants and he'll be knocking at your frontdoor some days later. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)
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Johnny B. Good
post Sep 2 2010, 08:00 PM
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I like it when people can't take my nifty toys away from me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

But as with most implants, implanted foci would probably cost essence.

See also: Tattooing and ritual scarring.
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Dashifen
post Sep 2 2010, 08:35 PM
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QUOTE (Johnny B. Good @ Sep 2 2010, 02:00 PM) *
But as with most implants, implanted foci would probably cost essence.


That was also something I'd considered. I think it's somewhat in keeping with the idea that body enhancements not paid for via Essence don't interact well with magic.

Reason for edit: Edited to include the appropriate portion of Jonny's post ;)
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suoq
post Sep 2 2010, 09:06 PM
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Personally, I'd decide and mention to the player that they're also changing their astral form. They're going to be brighter where the foci is located and that's going to make them a bit more recognizable.

(I know I'm probably using the wrong terms. Trying to mentally shift gears.)
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Stahlseele
post Sep 2 2010, 09:31 PM
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Skin pocket.
And as long as it's something like putting shaped metals under your skin, then no, no essence cost.
that's purely aesthetic/cosmetic stuff, not some kind of ware. The fact that it is, indeed, magically active, does not change that.
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Neraph
post Sep 3 2010, 05:30 AM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Sep 2 2010, 04:31 PM) *
Skin pocket.
And as long as it's something like putting shaped metals under your skin, then no, no essence cost.
that's purely aesthetic/cosmetic stuff, not some kind of ware. The fact that it is, indeed, magically active, does not change that.

Yes.

I kinda want to play a mage that has a Power/Sustaining/Weapon stacked focus cyberhand/forearm. Not sure which of the "/" options I'd choose, but I'd like to crunch it out sometime.

Back to OP: What character does your player play? You mentioned about a critter form - was that a spell or is the character a Shifter? If (s)he's a shifter the implant would only be viable in the natural animal form.
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Mäx
post Sep 3 2010, 06:04 AM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Sep 3 2010, 07:30 AM) *
If (s)he's a shifter the implant would only be viable in the natural animal form.

Ware implants only work in their natural form, but i don't see any reason for a Foci to stop working when they shift implanted or not, it's not like implants in shifters disappear into hyperspace when they shift into metahumans. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
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Stahlseele
post Sep 3 2010, 08:41 AM
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QUOTE (Mäx @ Sep 3 2010, 08:04 AM) *
Ware implants only work in their natural form, but i don't see any reason for a Foci to stop working when they shift implanted or not, it's not like implants in shifters disappear into hyperspace when they shift into metahumans. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

No, they disappear to the meta plane of teknologikal bitz.
You won't find traces of the implant in the metahuman form, when it has been implanted in the animal form.
Only the lessened essence, as far as i remember. It's magic!
Also, seeing how i think fox shifters keep their tails even in human form(is that correct?), then why not play a kangaroo shifter and keep the skin pocket in both forms? *snickers*
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Doc Byte
post Sep 3 2010, 12:00 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Sep 3 2010, 07:30 AM) *
I kinda want to play a mage that has a Power/Sustaining/Weapon stacked focus cyberhand/forearm. Not sure which of the "/" options I'd choose, but I'd like to crunch it out sometime.


IME spurs as weapon foci are quite common.
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Mooncrow
post Sep 3 2010, 12:07 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Sep 3 2010, 03:41 AM) *
No, they disappear to the meta plane of teknologikal bitz.
You won't find traces of the implant in the metahuman form, when it has been implanted in the animal form.
Only the lessened essence, as far as i remember. It's magic!
Also, seeing how i think fox shifters keep their tails even in human form(is that correct?), then why not play a kangaroo shifter and keep the skin pocket in both forms? *snickers*


Actually, the wording, at least in the shapeshifter description, says that they stop functioning but do not disappear. Conversely, the drake descriptions says that they actually disappear^^
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Dashifen
post Sep 3 2010, 12:50 PM
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QUOTE (Mooncrow @ Sep 3 2010, 06:07 AM) *
Actually, the wording, at least in the shapeshifter description, says that they stop functioning but do not disappear. Conversely, the drake descriptions says that they actually disappear^^


I never noticed that difference. I've always run drake shifting like the shapeshifter description. This player isn't sure if she wants to play a shifter, drake, or just a magician with a critter form spell, but she does want a way to use foci to try and avoid penalties in either form. Interestingly, she's going for an aquatic animal form so she's looking at a seal shifter, sea drake, or <insert amphibious animal here> critter form with a Geas on her magic that she must consume at least <units> water of Puget Sound per day or suffer the Geas. But, I digress.

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Mooncrow
post Sep 3 2010, 01:09 PM
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Yeah, I run both cases like the shapeshifting description, because it at least makes sense^^
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Fringe
post Sep 3 2010, 01:30 PM
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QUOTE (TommyTwoToes @ Sep 2 2010, 02:01 PM) *
I think the players living body is "opaque" on the Astral so the focus could not be targeted there is it was truely implanted. There needs to be a downside for balance reasons. I guess you could have someone try to steal the focus anyway, might be a good oportunity for that character to get a cyberleg involuntarily.

Ahh 1e, couldn't you ground out spells through spell locks? I seem to remember you could throw Hellblast (or whatever the AOE fire spell was) on the astral at a dual natured entity, and it would ground out and manifest on the physical plane with all the AOE goodness.


I would argue that since the focus draws mana through astral space it would be targetable in astral space. The subject's aura might grant the equivalent of cover, though, and a masked focus might be even harder to target.

Yes, I recall from 1e and 2e that you could ground spells through active foci...a potential balance to spell locks, for instance. Just another reason to initiate, so you could run those metaplanar quests to conceal the links to foci. (That's in 4e as well, in SM.) Basically, in order to track the link the tracker has to complete the same quest you did to conceal it...it only takes a Complex Action (IIRC), but you have to be an initiate (or have a spirit with Astral Gateway send you there) to do it.
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Stahlseele
post Sep 3 2010, 01:42 PM
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QUOTE
Geas on her magic that she must consume at least <units> water of Puget Sound per day or suffer

if she does that, then she will have much bigger problems. like poisoning herself to death in one day or so . .
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suoq
post Sep 3 2010, 01:48 PM
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I don't see how opaque the body can be when you can assense it and see what kind of ware, diseases, toxins are inside the body. Spotting a glowing focus shouldn't be that hard.
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Stahlseele
post Sep 3 2010, 01:51 PM
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WARE is a dead spot.
Your aura itself is glowing. Sickness changes colour/makes coloured Streaks.
As do poisons/toxins in certain places. Foci are glowing like your own aura.
Try and discern a single LED in one of those big screens in stadiums and the such.
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