[X] My Assistant

[Triggvi]

The million or so (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) he pulls for selling a type O Vamp is probably enough to set him for life. Don't really need much of a reputation when you're baking yourself brown on some Carribean island.

I go with the point made earlier. Who wants infected body parts.

If the vampire regenerates them and you have a market for them. Why not cut a deal with the vampire to harvest parts and split the money with him. Longer term gain and no loss of rep. Is it better to sell one kidney or 20 kidneys.

[Yerameyahu]

Even assuming Type O worked with Infected (and it doesn't), you're right: no one wants an Infected kidney. Best case, it's rejected; worst case, you die. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Triggvi]

Even assuming Type O worked with Infected (and it doesn't), you're right: no one wants an Infected kidney. Best case, it's rejected; worst case, you die. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I don't recall anything in the rules saying it doesn't work with infected. Common sense says that if you put infected parts in someone they become infected.

[Dahrken]

No, becaust this specific strain of HMVV has the Infection power for vector. No use of the power (which requires draining the Essence of whoever you want to infect to 0), no transmission...

[Yerameyahu]

Yes, that'd be between the best case and the worst case. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) You'd be a carrier, maybe. It's all house rules.

I was just talking about a house rules situation (no Type-O Infected), because there are no rules for Infected organ donation, either. (AFAIK.)

[Triggvi]

Yes, that'd be between the best case and the worst case. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) You'd be a carrier, maybe. It's all house rules.

I was just talking about a house rules situation (no Type-O Infected), because there are no rules for Infected organ donation, either. (AFAIK.)

I was talking about type o system working on the infected.

[sabs]

I would imagine that becoming one of the living undead might alter your type-o ness just a little (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

And so was I: they (vampires) can have it, but it doesn't do anything. Type O only reduces the Essence cost of non-Delta, and a vampire will need real Delta in the first place. Therefore, it's easier just to house rule that they can't have it, instead of the RAW (they can have it, it just does nothing).

It's my fault for accidentally saying 'Infected' instead of 'vampires'. For non-Regenerating Infected, Type O could certainly help. Ghouls, for example. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[sabs]

And so was I: they (vampires) can have it, but it doesn't do anything. Type O only reduces the Essence cost of non-Delta, and a vampire will need real Delta in the first place. Therefore, it's easier just to house rule that they can't have it, instead of the RAW (they can have it, it just does nothing).

It's my fault for accidentally saying 'Infected' instead of 'vampires'. For non-Regenerating Infected, Type O could certainly help. Ghouls, for example. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

A Ghoul shadowrunner would die within the first 10 minutes of game play (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
And what streetdoc is going to operate on a ghoul? given the.. unfortunate /touch/ infection pathogen.

[Yerameyahu]

I didn't say it would work, I said it made sense. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

In seriousness, yes, all the rules are incredibly broken, but we all manage to play the game anyway. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I bet you could find a few ghoul characters played by Dumpshock users.

[sabs]

I didn't say it would work, I said it made sense. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

In seriousness, yes, all the rules are incredibly broken, but we all manage to play the game anyway. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I bet you could find a few ghoul characters played by Dumpshock users.

I'm sure i could. Although why didn't the first Security WageMage they came across just nuke them from Astral Space until they died (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) i'll never know. Probably a nice GM.

[Yerameyahu]

Indeed. There's almost no reason for any dual-natured (non-projecting) entity to exist, because they'd be killed so easily, as we all know. It's just something you have to ignore to play the game.

[Karoline]

And so was I: they (vampires) can have it, but it doesn't do anything. Type O only reduces the Essence cost of non-Delta, and a vampire will need real Delta in the first place. Therefore, it's easier just to house rule that they can't have it, instead of the RAW (they can have it, it just does nothing).

It's my fault for accidentally saying 'Infected' instead of 'vampires'. For non-Regenerating Infected, Type O could certainly help. Ghouls, for example. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Except that Type O would work for vampires.

Off the rack, basic bioware is con-
sidered delta grade for purposes of interacting with a type O body
(i.e., reduce Essence Costs by half, though nuyen prices remain the
same)

(Weird, my new PDF reader copies lots of spaces (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Edit: and then the post takes them away so I sound like I'm crazy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )

Note the important part: "is considered delta grade for purposes of interacting with a type O body."

And in order for a vampire's regeneration to not reject bioware it needs to be delta grade. So, combine 'is considered delta grade' with 'needs to be delta grade' and you get success. The i.e. part is correct for the time of the book's printing, because when augmentation came out, grades of bioware had no purpose (when 'interacting with the body') besides reducing the essence cost. The ability to bypass regeneration's rejection of ware didn't yet exist.

[Yerameyahu]

As I said before, it says "(i.e., reduce Essence Costs by half, though nuyen prices remain the same)". That means that's what "purposes of interacting with a type O body" means, and nothing else. You can't go assuming things about printing timing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

As everyone said earlier in the thread, you're free to house rule that. Nothing wrong with house rules.

[Karoline]

As I said before, it says "(i.e., reduce Essence Costs by half, though nuyen prices remain the same)". That means that's what "purposes of interacting with a type O body" means, and nothing else. You can't go assuming things about printing timing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

As everyone said earlier in the thread, you're free to house rule that. Nothing wrong with house rules.

RAW, sure, you're right, RAI, likely not.

And it is fairly questionable as far as English is concerned once you consider future printings.

[Triggvi]

As I said before, it says "(i.e., reduce Essence Costs by half, though nuyen prices remain the same)". That means that's what "purposes of interacting with a type O body" means, and nothing else. You can't go assuming things about printing timing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

As everyone said earlier in the thread, you're free to house rule that. Nothing wrong with house rules.

"Off the rack, basic bioware is considered delta-grade for purposes of interacting with a type O body" pg 20 augmented

[Yerameyahu]

Again, nothing wrong with 'house' interpretations of the rules. You're supposed to do that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I don't play 'RAW', but it's what we discuss things using.

Triggvi, we've already quoted that 2, maybe 3 times. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) That's what we're talking about, man… for the whole thread. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Personally, and once again, this is a house rule situation, I'd agree with Dahrken: the virus changes your DNA, and there's no way Type O includes Infected DNA. That's not RAW, either.

[TommyTwoToes]

Yes, that'd be between the best case and the worst case. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) You'd be a carrier, maybe. It's all house rules.

I was just talking about a house rules situation (no Type-O Infected), because there are no rules for Infected organ donation, either. (AFAIK.)

The novel "World War Z: An Oral Histroy of the Zombie War" deals with infected parts from China being sold to a black clinic in Brazil where they are implanted into rich Westerners who can't get to the top of the donor lists in their own countries.

Infection was, fast.

[Karoline]

Personally, and once again, this is a house rule situation, I'd agree with Dahrken: the virus changes your DNA, and there's no way Type O includes Infected DNA. That's not RAW, either.

I figure that's likely the best way to do it as well. Infection would alter you away from Type O.

RAW vampires can have Type O, but it doesn't technically do anything.
RAI vampires can have Type O, and it is awesome.
CS vampires can't have Typoe O.

[Triggvi]

I figure that's likely the best way to do it as well. Infection would alter you away from Type O.

RAW vampires can have Type O, but it doesn't technically do anything.
RAI vampires can have Type O, and it is awesome.
CS vampires can't have Typoe O.

raw vampires can have it and it works normally. The quote from pg 20 augmented. I agree it is cheesy way of getting bioware. As a GM i would not allow it.

[Yerameyahu]

Again, no. That's not the RAW, unless you have an update or errata file for Augmentation that changes 'i.e.' to 'e.g.'. As we all know, it really doesn't matter in practice (i.e., in real games). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) If something's legal but the GM/table doesn't want it, it won't be allowed anyway; if something's illegal but the GM/table wants it, it will be allowed regardless. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[X-Kalibur]

RAW says that Vampires need delta-grade bio. RAW states that any character with Type O treats basic bioware as delta for the 'purposes of interacting with the body'. There is no rule stating any incompatability with the Type O quality and Vampirism, nor is there any rule saying Type O doesn't apply to Vampires in the same way. You can assume that the infection changes your DNA in such a way that it isn't compatable, but by true RAW, you are incorrect.

Also, ghouls can be non-infectious, and it actually costs less karma. Makes wanting to play one much easier.

[Karoline]

raw vampires can have it and it works normally. The quote from pg 20 augmented. I agree it is cheesy way of getting bioware. As a GM i would not allow it.

No, you have to include the i.e. I.e. is different from e.g. E.g. is 'for example' and i.e. is 'this is exactly what it means and nothing else'

So, 'i.e., reduces essence cost' means 'what was previously said means to reduce essence cost and nothing else'

You can't read parts of rules in seclusion.

RAI I'm sure that e.g. should have been used instead of i.e., but there you have it.

[Yerameyahu]

Yes: if you intentionally ignore parts of the text, you can make it say different things. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The rule clearly says that the one and only function of Type O is that non-delta bioware has the Essence cost of delta. It is compatible with being a vampire, just worthless.

This is just for the sake of argument, of course. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) In a game, the GM will decide, and that's the end of it.

Yeah, X-Calibur, I'd totally make the non-infectious quality *cost* BP. It's ridiculous.

[Karoline]

"I didn't finish reading the book." "You stopped reading at the word 'pig's'? It wasn't even the end of the sentence."