Shadowrun's Dystopia: Active or Passive?, Is it Apple's interference or Microsoft's apathy? Options

[Cheops]

Yeah, because it was so easy to get to the SIN Registration Halls during the riots and panic and such. Especially when you're SINless and no longer have access to your News Account. Or your 'Trid, for that matter because you've been locked out of your house due by the very security systems you bought. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

I'm willing to bet the Policlubs were right outside the SIN Registration Halls, making sure "The Right People" got SINs, and "The Wrong People" stayed in the gutter where they belonged, too.

That said, yeah, I'm betting it still wasn't easy to get one, and the Registration Process was probably brutal. But, compared to living on the streets, or finding out that your criminal record was crashed and burned totally... Good time to get out of the Shadows.

Too bad none of what you said is actually mentioned in the BBB. All it says about why people didn't get a SIN was because of a voluntary decision. Although I like your reasons and will use them.

[CanRay]

Yeah, well... It doesn't take that much stretch of an imagination to see groups doing that.

I mean, look at how "Elections" are done in some parts of the world. Same thing, really.

[Cheops]

It is somewhat complicated that the UCAS does have human rights so theoretically the government would be ensuring that people can get to the offices. This means you have Lone Star/National Guard/MOM versus Humanis/other hate groups. That can lead to the rioting but its tough to justify people being kept away. You'd also have human rights groups/churchs/community organizations going around to get people out to the offices. The countries you are referencing don't have human rights to begin with -- the elections are just a show of democracy to keep other nations happy (ie. foreign aid dollars keep flowing in and the IMF/world bank will still lend them money). If the UCAS didn't give a shit it wouldn't have offered the amnesty.

As far as lack of information goes that is more unfounded than the riots/hate groups. The government wasn't sure about its DATA not the system itself. Crash 2.0 didn't take the backbone down for long and the government CAN'T have offered an amnesty if their systems weren't working (unless they went back to analog aka paper). This means all the trid systems are available to broadcast.

[CanRay]

That's great... For the people who have 'Trids. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

As for Lone Star protecting the rights of Metahumans, aren't they heavily racist themselves? I certainly play it out that way, so I had to have gotten the idea from somewhere (Perhaps the LAPD?). They have the "Token Troll" on the force, who is used more as a mobile shield than anything else.

And, of course, Elf Spokespersons. Everyone loves to see an Elf on the 'Trid after all.

[Saint Sithney]

In my opinion, there's at least some cost/benefit analysis involved in the 'fix it or bury it' answer to problems. Even if you're pumping your PR, if the problem is blatant enough it will still pop out. Probably with some help from competition too, who have a vested intrested in making sure your screwups get as much media attention as possible. And will probably not-so-subtly point the finger at your coverup effort to make you look even worse.

This brings to mind THE INSURANCE WAR from the Neo-anarchist's Guide to North America.

[ Spoiler ]

One of the darkest times in Atlanta's history was the so-called Insurance War that rocked the city in the year 2035. The war was between Cord Mutual Insurance and North American Eagle Life Insurance. The stake was the coveted insurance contract for all employees of the new CAS government.

Cord Mutual had just completed construction of their impressive skyraker and had relocated their home offices to the new Atlanta building. Meanwhile, North American Eagle had a long-standing tradition of reliable service in Atlanta, which made them the candidate favored for the governmental contract.

The clandestine war of terrorism between the companies is thought to have started on June 8, 2035, with the simultaneous explosion of six Geas jets in flight from their Atlanta departure point. Geas Airline was insured by North American Eagle, which paid out enormous sums both for the jets and for civil suits by relatives of slain passengers. No connection with Cord Mutual was made at that time.

What followed was a sweep of assassinations of vidstars and entertainment personalities across the continent, and especially in Atlanta. The only connection between the victims was that they all held large policies with North American Eagle, which was beginning to have difficulty paying off its policies.

At some point, it is thought that North American Eagle's corporate investigators made a connection between a suspected assassin and Cord Mutual. Not much is known except that North American Eagle began funding a terrorist organization known as the Medusa Sisterhood to retaliate against Cord Mutual.

The Medusa Sisterhood made a series of vandalous attacks on Cord Mutual-insured corporations and individuals. Cord Mutual responded with attacks on the Sisterhood as well as on more North American Eagle targets. What began as a clandestine corporate power struggle became a bloody war, claiming the lives of hundreds of insured. The media finally broke the story, acting on rumors of the two corporations' involvement in the rash of violence sweeping the sprawl. The coverage caused the CAS government and the City of Atlanta government to come down hard on both corporations, ending the war.

In the aftermath, Cord Mutual was able to provide evidence of North American Eagle's funding of the Medusa Sisterhood, while no official connection was made between Cord Mutual and the independent operatives they used as soldiers in the Insurance War. North American Eagle was assessed fines and several top officials were arrested. Cord Mutual won the CAS insurance contract despite a storm of controversy.

Shortly after the fiasco, Cord Mutual went through a power struggle and several changes in upper management. There was also a supposedly unrelated accident in the company's skyraker, which led to the closing of the building's top 25 floors. Cord Mutual officials said only that it was declared structurally unsound.

In other words, "you tell people that my jets explode because our engineers messed up, and I'll have my 'PR people' blow your jets up and say the same damn thing about yours." It's the same basic principal as an oligopoly. There is a complicit agreement that taking strong actions in order to grab for clients is only going to cost everybody. Hell, I bet every robotics manufacturer in the 6th world wishes that Renraku kept a tighter lid on that whole Deus incident. Thanks that them letting that little cat out of the bag and scaring all the customers, a household bot sells for a song.

As for Lone Star protecting the rights of Metahumans, aren't they heavily racist themselves? I certainly play it out that way, so I had to have gotten the idea from somewhere (Perhaps the LAPD?). They have the "Token Troll" on the force, who is used more as a mobile shield than anything else.

And, of course, Elf Spokespersons. Everyone loves to see an Elf on the 'Trid after all.

Not even a quarter as racist as the Metropolitan Guard. The Joint Task Force taking up residence after the whole Arc incident has changed that a little, but any Crash-time UCAS SIN registry guarded by Metropol would have beaten the trogs back with water cannons or worse.

[Cheops]

And would have sparked a major inquest and backlash. Remember it was the United Corporate Council that stepped in to stop Governor Victor Allenson after the Night of Rage -- not a human rights group. They threatened boycotts and lockouts. It's a similar situation to the Koran burnings -- whackadoodle wants to hold a Koran burning, public reacts negatively, politician who is getting hammered in the polls sees opportunity to gain public support. Same thing. Public outraged at slaughter of metahumans, corporations see chance to show that they are looking out for public interest whereas the government isn't, so the corporations step in to fill the "void."

After the Night of Rage, mobs of citizens appeared at Lone Star precints and government buildings demanding the resignation of every officer/soldier involved. Allenson was told to step down but refused. He was found dead the next day.

Somehow I don't think that the Star and the Metroplex guard would be stupid enough to try something like that again (although people do consistently prove they are stupid) and if they did I'm pretty sure the backlash would be massive enough that the metahumans would get their citizenship pretty fast after that.

As for trids -- have you ever heard of billboards? I'm pretty sure that Shadowrun and cyberpunk in general still show them in use and many even have blimps with advertising (I'm looking at one on the cover of New Seattle right now). Governments may be incompetent and toothless in Shadowrun but not that incompetent and toothless. And again there are enough examples of humanitarian groups in SR that would have gone out into the Barrens to spread the word (as long as they are old and established so the UB taint doesn't rub off on them -- like various churches, amnesty international).

[CanRay]

OK, I'll go with the Blimps. I mean, my group even hacked one in a game for observing a target.

But take into consideration where most SINless are. In areas that do not have observation by anyone who really cares. The SIN Registries in the "City Halls" of the Barrens. Sure, they won't do it right out the doors, but go a few blocks and you're golden.

And, yeah, the Guard probably learned their lesson with The Night of Rage (Which hit more than Seattle, BTW.). So, they don't do it themselves. They hire a racist street gang to do it. There, it isn't the Guard, it's just common, everyday Street Violence.

And the Star can go, "Sorry, busy protecting Downtown, Bellevue, and Tacoma. Rain Check on the riot in the bad end of town, because there's riots here too!"

[Cheops]

There. Now we are starting to get somewhere a bit more interesting and a spot where groups can get involved. I still think it is an insanely fucking retarded idea especially as written in the actual game.

Although I would still point out that groups like MOM have an incentive to bus loads of metahumans from the Barrens to the Downtown registration hall if the Touristville hall is being besieged by Humanis thugs. These new citizens are direct votes in the pockets of the MOM candidates and that is a VERY strong incentive to pay money and take the effort to get them SINs. I mean this was the sort of stuff they were doing already -- and now the government is suddenly letting them bring a ton of "probationary citizen" metahumans into the UCAS system proper. Yes please.

So again, you should have a MUCH smaller SINless population in the UCAS post Crash 2.0.

[CanRay]

Who have no education, no job skills, can't read the contracts they sign, can't pay much (If anything) in taxes yet need benefits from the Government...

But they vote, very true!

So, they're not SINless any more. Now they have other issues. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[sabs]

I have a problem with part of the setting.
There's been huge/massive depopulation of the world. Twice. VITAS 1&2
And yet they talk about overcrowded sprawls everywhere.

For me, the way to mesh those two concepts together is that Nature has been abandoned. Civilization has shrunk in on itself.
Yes, the Major Urban centers are sprawly and super packed in. But that's because the suburban and rural worlds have been swallowed up by Para-nature.

I think of it as a lot like early colonial America. If your tough enough, and resourceful enough you can go live into the wilderness. Otherwise, you live in the pockets of Civilization.

That civilization is to me, just an extreme of the have/havenots corporate/public interests clash of today.
I think there are 4 groups of people in Shadowrun.
The Rich™ : Corporate Executives, Government Big Wigs.

The Middle Class™: I think is actually sizeable. They're just completely disenfranchised. This is made up of Corporate Middle Management, Scientists, Corporate Mages, Corporate Technomancers, Security Experts, Governmental Bureaucracy, Judges, Most elected officials, etc. Everyone who can afford the Middle and High Lifestyles. In order for the corporations to be able to sell products, people have to buy them, The Middle Class is what buys shit©

The Poor™: The classic WageSlaves.

The SiNless™: Think the working class in The Heart of Darkness. People who have no social protections, no health insurance, who live paycheck to paycheck, when they can get paychecks. You get hurt in a factory, they dump you out without so much as a bandaid. Shantytown Poor in India are a great example of this.

I think you have both the active crushing of souls, say from Aztechnology and Lone Star, and some of the others. And you have the Apathy of the traditional Japanese Megacorps.

[CanRay]

Well, to be fair, the overpopulation thing is due to artificially created islands like Seattle. Or natural ones like New York and Denver.

Head to some place where land is still pretty cheap, and you'd find people spreading out quite a bit. Winnipeg, Saskatoon, and Calgary would be good examples of this. (Someone want to mention some US ones?).

But who wants a Cyberpunk game where you can't hide in the crowded throng of people? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[sabs]

Well, to be fair, the overpopulation thing is due to artificially created islands like Seattle. Or natural ones like New York and Denver.

Head to some place where land is still pretty cheap, and you'd find people spreading out quite a bit. Winnipeg, Saskatoon, and Calgary would be good examples of this. (Someone want to mention some US ones?).

But who wants a Cyberpunk game where you can't hide in the crowded throng of people? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

In Shawdowrun all those cities are NAN territory, and most of them are 'back to nature' types (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[CanRay]

...

Except Winnipeg, yeah.

[Cheops]

Who have no education, no job skills, can't read the contracts they sign, can't pay much (If anything) in taxes yet need benefits from the Government...

But they vote, very true!

So, they're not SINless any more. Now they have other issues. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Education/skills: That's what skillwires are for! And many places still employ janitors to clean up the shitty bathrooms instead of drones (not sure why but most runs still seem to have people janitors).
Illiteracy: this has been part of SR for a long time and is even affecting the professionals. An established part of the setting is that literacy is on the decline because of the visual nature of the Matrix. I don't need to read the contract -- I have the LawyerBot 2000 ™ analyze it for me (free trial version available on UCAS Online!) and explain it to me.

This amnesty has to have been politically motivated and it has to have come from the pro-Meta camp. Otherwise you would have just ponied up the extra money and done a survey of the BUSINESSES. Unless somehow every person's Credstick/SIN got wiped in the crash along with all the Payroll records. Humanis backed politicians just say "Wait until people go back to work and ask the businesses who they employ and what there SIN number is." Not "OMFG! We don't know who's a citizen anymore!!! WTF! Give a free amnesty to everyone who can haul ass down to a government building and hand out SINs like candy! OMFG!" Hell, in modern times businesses are required to remit money to the government to cover income taxes and that data includes the SIN/SSA numbers of everyone the business is filing for. Just ask the businesses to make a $0 filing for this month and blamo! Citizenship records.

[sabs]

Education/skills: That's what skillwires are for! And many places still employ janitors to clean up the shitty bathrooms instead of drones (not sure why but most runs still seem to have people janitors).
Illiteracy: this has been part of SR for a long time and is even affecting the professionals. An established part of the setting is that literacy is on the decline because of the visual nature of the Matrix. I don't need to read the contract -- I have the LawyerBot 2000 ™ analyze it for me (free trial version available on UCAS Online!) and explain it to me.

This amnesty has to have been politically motivated and it has to have come from the pro-Meta camp. Otherwise you would have just ponied up the extra money and done a survey of the BUSINESSES. Unless somehow every person's Credstick/SIN got wiped in the crash along with all the Payroll records. Humanis backed politicians just say "Wait until people go back to work and ask the businesses who they employ and what there SIN number is." Not "OMFG! We don't know who's a citizen anymore!!! WTF! Give a free amnesty to everyone who can haul ass down to a government building and hand out SINs like candy! OMFG!" Hell, in modern times businesses are required to remit money to the government to cover income taxes and that data includes the SIN/SSA numbers of everyone the business is filing for. Just ask the businesses to make a $0 filing for this month and blamo! Citizenship records.

Also remember that before Crash 2.0 and the rise of wireless matrix, People would have had actual drivers licenses, identity cards, passports, etc. Because almost noone had a cyberdeck and datajacks.
I think more likely, after the Crash, you could come into City Hall, or go to the Counter Records, and present 2 pieces of ID and 2 proof of residency. If you actually had a copy of your birth certificate, even better, you could get a shiny new SiN. If you couldn't do that. Well, sorry, you're out of luck. Come back with those documents, or GTFO.

[suoq]

I think more likely, after the Crash, you could come into City Hall, or go to the Counter Records, and present 2 pieces of ID and 2 proof of residency. If you actually had a copy of your birth certificate, even better, you could get a shiny new SiN. If you had enough pictures of dead presidents, even better. If you couldn't do that. Well, sorry, you're out of luck. Come back with those documents, or GTFO.

Fixed.

[sabs]

Fixed.

QFT

My fault, I assumed everyone understood that Bribery was de rigeur.

Of course, it would have to be in cash. Since anything in banks would be.. how you say.. unaccessible.

[Prime Mover]

1) Do the powerful fear the masses?
(Only when outside there spheres of influence.)
2) Do the powerful react to the demands of the masses or do the powerful only appear to react to the demands of the masses or do the powerful clearly not care.
(They manufacture most demand outside of basic needs, might even manufacture some of those as well if they can.)
3) Do the masses fear the powerful?
(Most do.)
4) Is that fear realistic?
(It's a learned fear, the boogey man syndrome. But in this case the boogey could technically show up one day.)
5) Bread? Circuses?
(artificial bread and bright and shiny circus's for the win!)

[CanRay]

Of course, it would have to be in cash. Since anything in banks would be.. how you say.. unaccessible.

"Wait, Ronald Reagan is on the $1000 bill?" - When I introduced UCAS Dollars into the game.

[Doc Chase]

Fixed.

I bet a polaroid of Kyle Haeffner just post-assassination would be hugely valuable. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Narrator: "A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one." - Fight Club

Dude, you are breaking the first AND the second rules. Shush...

[Cheops]

"Wait, Ronald Reagan is on the $1000 bill?" - When I introduced UCAS Dollars into the game.

Sweet!

[Blade]

My games, especially my latest campaign, are dystopic. They do have "psychotic thrill-kill gang on nearly every block and on every major road".

In my games, the powerful don't oppress the masses, they squeeze them dry (just like any other resources)... and the masses like it.
The corps show shiny toys to the masses and let them have them in exchange for their loyalty and obedience and the masses accept. They don't have much choice anyway since the world is so dangerous (terrible environmental conditions, sky-high crime rates, magical threats...) that without the corporate protection they wouldn't be safe anyway (an idea that's true to begin with but also magnified by corp propaganda). The carrot (shiny toys) and the stick (fear of the world) is what keep the masses in check.

The masses don't fear the corps, they are the only stable entities in this world gone mad. They are the only one to offer them a protection that they can't get from the States and even the charities (i.e Universal Brotherhood). And they even give them shiny toys! And the corps don't fear the masses since they literally own them.