Personal Armor, Anybody know what it does? Options

[Moonstone Spider]

I was leafing through Rigger 3 and noticed Personal Armor in the modifications section. It's armor which weighs less, costs less, and "has much the same effect on Vehicle-scale weaponry as personal body armor."

Can anybody explain what this means? It sounds as if this is a cheap way to put 50 points of armor on a drone since it weights 1/10th what normal armor does, and I don't know what the effects of vehicle scale weaponry are, it doesn't say.

[Siege]

I _think_ it's draping an armored jacket over a vehicle rather than using actual vehicle armor capable of repelling anti-vehicle weapons.

Essentially, you're using (meta)human scale armor on a vehicle instead of the proper vehicle armor.

-Siege

[Herald of Verjig...]

As Siege said, it is unhardened basic armor. It does not count double against small arms, it does not lower the damage scale of small arms fire by one (but that's apparently a general vehicle trait and not a vehicular armor trait). It's only really helpful to protect passengers a little better with less costs.

You may be able to put 20 points on a drone, but since it isn't hardened, you still have to deal with the 2D using the pathetic body rating of the drone (+applicable pools).

[Moonstone Spider]

I'm curious as to how you came to that conclusion, since Rigger 3 specifically states that it fends off small arms fire but says it reacts to AV fire as body armor. Nothing there says it fails to stage down normal weapons (even vehicles with no armor at all get to do that!) or is not hardened. It seems contradictory to me to say it cannot repel small arms, when the book states that it fends off small arms.

[FlakJacket]

You still get the stage down a level and halve the power effect from it being a vehicle. It's just that since it's not counted as hardened armour, it acts as normal personal armour rather than automatically stopping damage is the armour rating equals or exceeds the power of the weapon.

[Kagetenshi]

I hadn't realized that it'd count at all for attacks against the vehicle; I was just assuming it was an armored passenger cabin.

~J

[Capt. Dave]

Think of Personal Armor as Lucite glass and Kevlar in the doors. It's the same type of armor that vehicle as used by government heads and public figures.
This will protect against people firing a weapon in the small-arms category. If the weapon does AV damage, then Kevlar isn't going to do much for you.

[Luke Hardison]

Personal Armor "has the same effect on vehicle-scale weaponry as personal body armor." It's treated as non-hardened balistic armor; if you put in 3 points of personal armor, it's as though your passengers are all wearing armored clothing.

[mfb]

i don't see anything in the text that keeps it from protecting the vehicle, as well. i also believe it acts as both ballistic and impact armor (which may not seem important, until that troll physad takes a swing at your engine block).

[Luke Hardison]

I agree that there's nothing in the text that says it can't protect the vehicle, but I think that either one is a valid interpretation to take. However, the last sentence in the description says

[Frag-o Delux]

Personally since it is called Personal armor, not car wrapped in kevlar, I wouldn't allow it help against vehicle hits, only against called shots aimed at the peoiple in the car. That is just me though.

[Capt. Dave]

Just to play Devil's advocate - the armor is a part of the car, and perhaps "Personal Armor" refers to defense from "personal weapons", as most people don't pack AGTMs. (note I say most) I think it protects the car from small arms (Non-AV) damage, but I agree it won't help in a crash.

Bad Guy A fires his Ares Predator at your lovely car (9M)
You have 3 points of Personal Armor which reduces the power of non-AV
damage by 3, so the attack comes in at 6M, which due to the fact it is being
directed at a vehicle makes it 3L.

Of course, you could say that the staging down applies before the armor does,
in which case it would be 1L

[Frag-o Delux]

Then why not call it economical armor or slightly weaker then real armor armor? I seem to remember I think R2, personal armor was described a passenger armor, not really intended to prtect the car.

Like Luke said, either intereptation is valid, it is just the name that makes me think it was intended to protect the passenger cabin not the car.

[Austere Emancipa...]

[Frag-o Delux]

Depends what you pay for. I have seen some that are just lined with kevlar in the cabin. Some with plates in the doors. I have seen the radiator moved to a compartment that can still get air then armoring just the grill. Armoring a car for a VIP can come in all shapes and sizes depending on the budget. But I think all but the most important people just get the kevlar wrap done to the cabin and some lexan windows. The president on the other hand is loaded for war.

Austere, are you agreeing with me? Hard to tell. :)

[Kalibar]

I'd say that the personal armor protects the whole car not just the passengers, otherwise it'd be superfluous to have:

Armored seating: personal armor protection for individuals in a car without protecting the whole car. Which is bought on a per person protected basis.

I always considered personal armor to be non-vehicular armor...no scaling down, no hardening. But light, easily concealable, cheaper and easy on the CF.

[Capt. Dave]

Most armored cars do incorporate armor around the engine compartment, but those vehicles that are meant to resist serious fire have what would be in SR "real armor". The thing is, personal armor is usually inside a vehicle. So it would make some sense that it would not protect the car, as a round would have to go through
the side of a car to be stopped by the armor. Hmm...

[Frag-o Delux]

But armored seating, If I remember correctly only protects from shots coming from behind. What about shots comeing through the windshield? Sure the guy in the back seat is fine, but now he is wear his buddies liver.

[Capt. Dave]

Most cars that have personal armor usually replace the window glass with lucite or bulletproof glass. You could use a barrier rating equal to that of the personal armor.

EDIT- when I say "inside a vehicle" i mean in the door panels

[Austere Emancipa...]

If the armor is in the panels, it would still protect the important bits of the car -- engine, controls, transmission, whatever. If the armor is only around the cabin, then of course it's not much good for protection the vehicle itself, but trying to stop a car by wrecking the "shell" of it is pretty difficult.

[Capt. Dave]

Good point. I guess it's just up to the GM. I usually treat it as its nearest counterpart in real life (Kevlar in the door panels, quarter panels, armored glass),
but there's nothing wrong with saying it protects passengers only, not the car.

[mcb]

What good does it do the passengers if only the passenger compartment is armored and not the engine and drive train. I don’t know of any armor limousine or SUV manufactures that only armor the passenger compartment. They all protect the engine, put run flat tires, self sealing gas tanks etc. If you don't protect the engine and drive train then what’s the point in armoring anything else? The attacker will just shoot the unprotected engine and then the attacker can take their time getting to the occupants. In adding light armor to vehicles like a Limo or SUV they are simply attempting to buy the occupant a little time to get away. To do that the armor has to keep you from getting shoot and keep the vehicle functional so you can run.

mcb

[Kagetenshi]

No amount of vehicle armor protects the tyres unless you buy the runflat versions, IIRC.

~J

[Cray74]

[Rev]

I think it is supposed to be similar to the armored seating thing, but maybe a bit better especially if you have a lot of seats.

What good is it? The goal is to protect the passengers from attack. The vehicle may be easily crippled, but today in vehicle assissinations/carjacking typically go something like this:

Vehicle is halted by roadblock, bomb, stoplight, in parking lot, etc.
Attackers run up to it and shoots or threatenns people inside through the windows, perhaps with only a pistol.
Passengers die, or do whatever the guy with the gun says. Attacker immediately leaves the area to evade police/security response, is captured, or suicides.

Personal armor seems to me to be meant to represent the sort of vehicle armor that protects against that sort of thing without the expense of armoring the vehicle such that it can be attacked by moderately heavy weaponry and continue to drive. The idea is that the passengers stay safely inside the vehicle if attacked by small arms and wait for help. Some protection is also provided against larger weaponry, but probably not enough. The vehicle is likely to be immobilized but unless the attackers have a lot of time or heavier weapons the passengers are relatively safe inside. Basically if somebody wants to whack you they now have to hire shadowrunners or top of the line gangers instead of just local thrill gangers.

As such it would be pretty much worthless in a drone. You might say it could protect a cargo space in a drone, but should provide no protection to the drone itself.