[X] My Assistant

[sabs]

You shouldn't be able to 'dodge' a grenade.
You should be allowed to default to a full run action in a direction away from the grenade, and pray you can move fast enough (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[TommyTwoToes]

Shouldn't those people be going to hospitals, or at least streetdocs with medical equipment that helps in the recovery process.

And Body 8+ Trolls are preternaturally tough and robust. They have what I call "rapid healing" effectively. It's not regen, but it's darn close.

Correct, someone with body of 2 living in "street" conditions gets to roll zero dice to heal without outside intervention. The problem is that people with a body of 2 probably don't have health coverage and therefore get no medical attention, or at least they get bad care (skill 1), so they take forever to heal up.

[sabs]

Correct, someone with body of 2 living in "street" conditions gets to roll zero dice to heal without outside intervention. The problem is that people with a body of 2 probably don't have health coverage and therefore get no medical attention, or at least they get bad care (skill 1), so they take forever to heal up.

This is a problem why? (from a rules point of view)

[TommyTwoToes]

This is a problem why? (from a rules point of view)

He isn't the problem, its the 8 body troll who takes an Assault cannon round to the chest (say 12 boxes of unresisted damage). He received medical attention from a very gifted doctor, and he can be fully healed in 1 day.....fully healed...1 day.

[TheScrivener]

Off-topic: that really should be how grenades are targeted anyway. Someone's ability to wiggle isn't relevant for an explosion, and letting them dodge the attack really screws the already screwy scatter rules. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Grenades are always a tricky thing to model, since it's an attack on the area you occupy, not on you per se, so defense works differently than with sword swings or bullets or Powerballs.

I look at ranged defense this way: in combat, everyone is constantly dipping, weaving and positioning to present the least possible target area; a skilled/trained/nimble combatant will be better at the split-second reactions this requires to avoid firearm and projectile attacks. This is represented by your base Reaction normally, and a Full Defense action means you're focusing on this, concentrating more on your posture, positioning and direction instead of attacking or doing anything else, so you add your Dodge skill. (Gymnastics dodge is jumping/flipping around for a more cinematic version of the same thing, natch.)
None of that has anything to do with a small object falling at your feet and filling the area with shrapnel; at the very most you could angle your body to take most of the hit on armor, but "dodging" an explosion generally involves *being somewhere else* when it goes off. Some of this is handled by the timer and giving a chance for people to make move actions; a wired-up sammy could have enough actions to drop his gun, pick up the grenade, and toss it back before it explodes, but it's not satisfying to most players if there's *no* involvement on their part (probably why RAW allows an opposing dodge roll).

How I resolve it is reusing the game's scatter mechanic; if the grenade is targeted straight at a character or their space, and the unopposed attack roll would place it there with 1 m or less scatter (ie, the grenade actually reaches their space that character rolls their Reaction (plus Unarmed or Melee skill on full defense) against the opponent's original attack roll; any net hits are expressed in meters of scatter away from the targeted character, rolled seperately on the scatter table. So, the targeted character hit the grenade with a kick or knocked it with their gun-butt or something, and it's a bit further away, giving them some survivability, but it's more realistic than somehow one's dodge ability making a grenade magically bounce back into the opponent's face when by scatter rules it shouldn't have come near the target in the first place.
I don't like giving extra movement to characters when it's not their turns; it makes things messy. For most grenades you have a couple of seconds to try to move before the attacker's initiative pass comes back up, of course with airbursts you rarely get the opportunity to defend at all.
All this tends to make grenades a bit more lethal, especially with liberal use of the Chunky Salsa blast-channeling rules. Moral of the story? Know the terrain, use cover, don't get out in the open! Works well against both 'nades and Fireballs.

[sabs]

He isn't the problem, its the 8 body troll who takes an Assault cannon round to the chest (say 12 boxes of unresisted damage). He received medical attention from a very gifted doctor, and he can be fully healed in 1 day.....fully healed...1 day.

He's a freaking troll?
His Body score is 3x higher than the average human.
He is 1.4x more robust than the most robust human in the world.
Maybe the problem is the gifted doctor multiplier. By my reconning, if he's rolling 8 dice for healing. He's probably only healing 2-3 boxes a day. That's not entirely out of band, given that he's a Troll.

[TommyTwoToes]

He's a freaking troll?
His Body score is 3x higher than the average human.
He is 1.4x more robust than the most robust human in the world.
Maybe the problem is the gifted doctor multiplier. By my reconning, if he's rolling 8 dice for healing. He's probably only healing 2-3 boxes a day. That's not entirely out of band, given that he's a Troll.

But the troll should be rolling
Body x 2= 16
+ Doc first aid of 6 (including a specialization)
+medkit of 6
= 28 dice

So he is healing down to maybe 2-3 boxes of damage off of a 12 box wound in 1 day, and thats where the system starts to break. He goes from having his entire physical track filled to maybe not even having a wound penalty overnight.

[sabs]

Optional Rule in Augmentation changes it to Body not Body x 2.

So now he's down to rolling 20 dice.
Also, isn't the max he can heal limited by the First Aid skill being used on him?
So should not that example look like:
Body 8
+ First Aid 6
+ Medkit 6
= 20 dice
6 Successes, 6 Max hits?
So now he goes from 12 to 6 Boxes.

[Yerameyahu]

Well, you can only be First Aid'd once, right? Then it's back to natural healing.

[sabs]

I wish I had Augmentation with me at work, so I could read the exact wording.

[darthmord]

I believe that technically they go on at the END of the healing time. (It is best to cast heal when you are not in the middle of combat.)

Well, the way it should be run IMO (if going by previous editions for guidance and the SR4 rules as written) was like so...

Permanent Spells are just like Sustained Spells except after a certain time, they become permanent without any additional effort on the part of the caster.

Thus, Permanent spell effects go into effect immediately upon completion of casting just like any other spell with a duration other than instant. That said, just like a sustained spell... those effects are only present while the spell is sustained (until it goes permanent). Causing a sustained spell to drop makes the effects go away. Causing a Permanent spell in its sustained phase will make the effects go away.

Breaking the concentration holding a heal spell in place will cause those wounds to re-appear. This means combat is a bad place to be healing someone unless you are able to spend enough hits to make it go permanent quickly.

It was also a reason for my runners in earlier editions to make a ranged Heal spell. Made it a bit safer for the caster and the recipient.

[Doc Chase]

It was also a reason for my runners in earlier editions to make a ranged Heal spell. Made it a bit safer for the caster and the recipient.

Combat medicine isn't supposed to be safe.

[sabs]

I had a combat Medic.

One of his primary spells? Physical Barrier

Medicine group at 4
Heal
Detox
Physical Barrier
a few R6 medkits
And of course, Sustaining Foci. Cast Physical Barrier, shunt it off, cast heal, shunt it off. Move on.

[DireRadiant]

- No more saves for the hapless security guard, he just has to sit there and have his brain tapped for as long as the mage can stay awake? Damn that's harsh!
I would have thought that the target would have the same opportunity to shake off the spell as with Mental Manipulations: every Force Combat Turns Willpower &Cntr to reduce Spellcasting Hits (Escape from Grapple works the same way technically).
So basically the only recourse a mundane character has against Mindprobe is to search frantically for the source of the spell?

The target is aware of being probed. A useful Mind Probe is almost always cast at a force that makes it easy to spot the source. The target is free to take actions, such as saying to his buddies, "Hey someone is reading my mind." or pressing the Panic Button and calling in a bunch of astral mages to start astrally tracking the source of illegal magic.

[jakephillips]

There are optional rules for healing in Augmentation. Stuff like, rolling BOD instead of BODx2 for natural healing. Broken limbs and worse when getting a glitch or critical glitch when soaking damage or healing, etc. It adds to the "post-lethality" of the game, when you need to get back on your feet ASAP because any minute now whomever is after you will find you.

Yep we use them on my campaign. Just bod not bod X2 for wounds to heal and glitch crit glitch on damage roles leads to heavy wounds. Had a street sam Get his leg blown out on a run a couple of weeks ago. He decided to have it replaced with chrome rather than wait for a cloned limb to be gown.

[Aerospider]

He isn't the problem, its the 8 body troll who takes an Assault cannon round to the chest (say 12 boxes of unresisted damage). He received medical attention from a very gifted doctor, and he can be fully healed in 1 day.....fully healed...1 day.

That's if you consider 0 boxes of damage to equate to "fully healed". From a crunch perspective that's perfectly true, but it's a heavily abstracted system and I wouldn't tell the player he was fit as a fiddle. The wound would remain visible for weeks or months, the scarring would be atrocious and for a good while after the surgery the character would be feeling aches, twinges and shortnesses of breath. Having a clean condition monitor is only relevant to game mechanics. The character may be able to do everything as well as he could before, but most people will notice he's in discomfort and it's RAW to impose non-RAW situational modifiers (especially for social interactions) so it's only a one-day-problem if you let it be so.

Other than that, yeah he's a "freaking troll" (well put sabs) and medicine is six decades on from the present day – I'd expect the technological advancements to have made patching up a metahuman a remarkably similar process to fixing a drone. Probably exactly the same where cyberware is concerned ...

On the subject of optional healing rules, I especially like to include wound modifiers so that heavier wounds take disproportionately longer and are more likely to require professional attention.