[X] My Assistant

[Yerameyahu]

Anyway, I'd allow a BF revolver. It's not really more unbalanced than anything else, and SS-to-BF uses most of your mod slots.

[X-Kalibur]

1) FA is not 3-round bursts, that's a short burst
2) the gun doesn't have enough bullets in it to use full auto anyways.

On point 2 - sure it does. Anything less than the minimum required amount for the burst simply subtracts from the DV (or dodge mod)

[Dakka Dakka]

@1: Yes, it does:

Characters can use a weapon in fullauto mode to fire bursts(3), as noted above, each taking a Simple Action. Full-auto weapons can also be used to fire long bursts(6) with a Simple Action or full bursts(10) with a Complex Action.

Emphasis and added bullet number mine
The section above is: Burst Fire mode.

@2 With the rules from 1 you need a minimum of 3 (2 actually) bullets to fire in FA. So the Thunderbolt has enough. you can even get it to 2*11. that's even enough for suppressive fire.

@Gas vent: sorry that was nonsense, pistols cannot take them.

[Yerameyahu]

Weird. You're right, sorry; must be a new change, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's silly that you can mod a gun to have FA and *not* BF anyway.

[Dakka Dakka]

Weird. You're right, sorry; must be a new change, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It's not, it's been that way at least since 3rd edition. SR4 without the A has the same wording.

It's silly that you can mod a gun to have FA and *not* BF anyway.

While there are IRL guns that have SA and FA but not BF, I know of no rule that forbids modding either BF or FA or both.

[Yerameyahu]

No, I mean that it's silly that you can mod a gun to have SS/FA or SA/FA, etc.; FA without BF. It costs the same in money and slots to get FA, and going from FA to BF is explicitly an option. Weird, because of the costs; while RL guns can indeed be SA/FA, there's no reason to do so in SR4 if FA *includes* BF.

Anyway, for the OP: no RAW or balance reasons to disallow the BF or FA mods on your revolver, whether SS or SA. You'll be using 2/3 of your mod slots, it's F and expensive, and RC is hard to get. *shrug*

[Dakka Dakka]

while RL guns can indeed be SA/FA, there's no reason to do so in SR4 if FA *includes* BF.

Well By RAW the difference between a BF and a FA 3 round burst is that you cannot call a shot in FA, which is silly in its own right. But you're right, BF is basically useless unless there are weapons which can't for whatever reason be upgraded to FA.

[Yerameyahu]

Yeah, it makes sense for BF-without-FA to exist, but not the other way around. Tell me this, though: do the devs know that FA can fire short bursts? Why have BF/FA LMGs and FA-only MMGs, then? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (I'm not talking about miniguns, etc., which have fixed fire rates.)

Anyway. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's funny that you mentioned/de-mentioned Gas Vents, because as we know revolvers in RL certainly can have gas vents. Chalk up another 'realism' difference. If you're only firing short bursts with the revolver, though, you can use Folding Stock, Personalized Grip, and/or the optional STR-to-RC rule. The Underbarrel Weight (mod version only) works by RAW, but it uses both remaining mod slots. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Yeah, it makes sense for BF-without-FA to exist, but not the other way around. Tell me this, though: do the devs know that FA can fire short bursts? Why have BF/FA LMGs and FA-only MMGs, then? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (I'm not talking about miniguns, etc., which have fixed fire rates.)

Anyway. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's funny that you mentioned/de-mentioned Gas Vents, because as we know revolvers in RL certainly can have gas vents. Chalk up another 'realism' difference. If you're only firing short bursts with the revolver, though, you can use Folding Stock, Personalized Grip, and/or the optional STR-to-RC rule. The Underbarrel Weight (mod version only) works by RAW, but it uses both remaining mod slots. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Main benefit of BF over FA, for Short or Long Bursts, is the Ability to call a shot (As weird as that is)...

[KarmaInferno]

Technically, for many firearms burst fire mechanisms are actually slightly more complicated than full auto.

Burst fire has to have a bit that stops the firing after 3 rounds. Full auto does not.

Also, just because I'm surprised nobody's linked it yet:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mateba_Autorevolver


-karma

[Dumori]

Technically, for many firearms burst fire mechanisms are actually slightly more complicated than full auto.

Burst fire has to have a bit that stops the firing after 3 rounds. Full auto does not.

Also, just because I'm surprised nobody's linked it yet:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mateba_Autorevolver


-karma

Or these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_revol...chine_revolvers Not hand guns nut one is three round burst firing AR type weapon. Weather smaller round would be able to work in such mechanisms IDK but its physical possible to make FA/BF revolvers just its not conman as they would be rather niche.

[Yerameyahu]

Yeah, as I said Tymeaus, I wouldn't allow a Called Shot with a Wide Burst anyway, and the 'loophole' that keeps an FA short burst from being the same as a BF short burst is just that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Mäx]

Main benefit of BF over FA, for Short or Long Bursts, is the Ability to call a shot (As weird as that is)...

Maybe its becouse it tooks so much concentration to fire just 3 rounds on full auto, that you dont have enough left to do a called shot (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Ed_209a]

Maybe its becouse it tooks so much concentration to fire just 3 rounds on full auto, that you dont have enough left to do a called shot (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

The trick to that is that you just don't worry about firing exactly 3 rounds. 3-5 rounds is close enough.

What you might do is just say that people with 3 points or more in Automatics (or whatever) just can fire a short burst on full auto, and not worry about it.

Characters with less skill, roll 10 dice, and every hit is a bullet used to get the effect of your 3-round burst.

[Elfenlied]

Except that you need the long-arms skill for that, it is after all a shotgun, not a pistol.

Confused it with a Street Sweeper, damn.

[Doc Byte]

Ruge Maga Warhawk

The Mega Warhawk is a bit of a overmodified monster. The firing mechanism has been changed to a fixed burstfiring mode and all manual parts (exept the loading mechanism) have been removed. The Mega Warhawks deals a hell of a damage but has barely any recoil compensation, plus it has to be reloaded every combat turn. The Mega Warhawk can't be fired without a smartlink. A glitch will cause a malfunction that has to be attended with an armorer (2) skill test.

Mods

Ammo Skip System (1)
Electronic Firing (2)
Trigger Removal (-)
Firing Selection Change to BF (4)
Internal Smartlink (-)

Stats

Damage: 6P
AP: -2
Mode: BF
RC: 1
Ammo: 6 (cy)

Cost: 4.000

[Neurosis]

Electronic Firing is just so "wimpy". It doesn't seem the right flavor for the gun you're trying to build, Doc. Actually, same goes for Trigger Removal. It seems to me that a character who wanted SOTA BLEEDING EDGE HIGH TECH SHIT would probably not be using a revolver.

Anyway, that certainly is an interesting gun.

[Elfenlied]

Well, since silencing revolvers is a pretty expensive business, personalized grip could replace electronic firing, since the two don't stack anyway.

[Doc Byte]

Well, since silencing revolvers is a pretty expensive business, personalized grip could replace electronic firing, since the two don't stack anyway.

Electronic Firing and Ammo Skip System are more fluff than crunch for a burstfire moded six-gun.

[Elfenlied]

Electronic Firing and Ammo Skip System are more fluff than crunch for a burstfire moded six-gun.

Personally, I'd rather have an Increased Cylinder than an ammo skip system. Not worth it IMO on a gun with low ammo capacity.

[Dakka Dakka]

Personally, I'd rather have an Increased Cylinder than an ammo skip system. Not worth it IMO on a gun with low ammo capacity.

Only in Revolvers does the ammo skip system make sense. When do you need more than two types of ammo in a weapon? Additional clip has the same functionality without wasting ammo.

[Doc Byte]

Personally, I'd rather have an Increased Cylinder than an ammo skip system. Not worth it IMO on a gun with low ammo capacity.

But what do you do with 8 bullets, if your gun can only fire 3 or 6 at a time? If you reload after 2 short bursts or 1 long burst anyway, you don't need 2 additional bullets.

[Elfenlied]

But what do you do with 8 bullets, if your gun can only fire 3 or 6 at a time? If you reload after 2 short bursts or 1 long burst anyway, you don't need 2 additional bullets.

Partial Burst Fire. As for ammo, AV rounds will do the trick most of the time.

[Yerameyahu]

Isn't that 7 out of 6 mod slots anyway?

[Dakka Dakka]

As for ammo, AV rounds will do the trick most of the time.

Exactly. Regular/Ex/Ex²/APDS/AV whatever is available against things immune to stun and SnS against the rest. Highly specialized ammo (capsule rounds/lockbreaker shells etc.) can well be carried in a separate magazine

Isn't that 7 out of 6 mod slots anyway?

That's why the poster added side effects.